rzm SS code

[jimt]

can someone tell me who the manufacturer of SS buttons and also the Skull overseas cap buttons with the code rzm "63" , thanks
jim

[PMan]

SS Buttons

can someone tell me who the manufacturer of SS buttons and also the Skull overseas cap buttons with the code rzm "63" , thanks
jim

Add, 155, 257, 389, 456, 629 and 1194. 155 being Assmann.

[Robert H]

there is one M5 maker only for buttons with 63

[SJP]

63

Jim

Hans Schulz & Co. Oppach
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Cheers Steve

[Robert H]

right, listed as Schulz Hans & Co. Oppach

[derek]

Are we sure the code number system is the same for the standard RZM metal codes and the SS items? They seem to differ on cap badges.
Derek

[bwanek1]

They seem to differ on cap badges.

How so?

[Milan Gard]

17 and 57, or no?

[bwanek1]

17 and 57, or no?

What about those two numbers?

[Milan Gard]

I dont understand question on 100% "can someone tell me who the manufacturer of SS buttons and also the Skull overseas cap buttons with the code rzm "63""

but Skull Cap Buttons made makers 1194, 63, all written above and 17 + 57 IMO

[SJP]

Are we sure the code number system is the same for the standard RZM metal codes and the SS items? They seem to differ on cap badges.
Derek

Derek, They way I read it, it is.M1 would be for cap insignia & M5 for "Uniform effects" regardless of the organization.


Milan , M5/17 Kraft & Schull, Duren

M5/57 Paul Schmacher, Ludenshied
________________________________________________
Cheers Steve

[Milan Gard]

I dont understand question on 100% "can someone tell me who the manufacturer of SS buttons and also the Skull overseas cap buttons with the code rzm "63""

but Skull Cap Buttons made makers 1194, 63, all written above and 17 + 57 IMO

***

[revi]

Milan is correct, ( early ) SS skulbutton manufactor number would be 57, later 63.

Best,

Seth.

[derek]

bwnaek1,
The point of my question was on a double marked Zimmermann eagle for example, the RZM code is M1/72 but the ss code is 499.
So I was pointing out that there appears to be two code systems at work.
Derek

[bwanek1]

bwnaek1,
The point of my question was on a double marked Zimmermann eagle for example, the RZM code is M1/72 but the ss code is 499.
So I was pointing out that there appears to be two code systems at work.
Derek

Yes.

There was one marking convention required by the RZM for items (including those for the SS) produced by manufacturers under contract with them and a separate convention required by the SS for items produced by manufacturers under direct contract with them.

The complete RZM marking code reflects the material, type of item, and the manufacturer. For metal cap insignia, the code begins with "M" indicating the material (metal), “1” indicates the type of item (insignia), and, following the slash, a one or two-digit number indicates the manufacturer. For buttons, which normally fell under uniform effects, rather than insignia, the most common item code would be "5." However, on items made before this complete coding system was adopted, often just the RZM symbol and manufacturer code was used (like on the 57 and 63 buttons and the 52 skulls).

When the SS contracted directly with manufacturers for the production of insignia, independent of the RZM contracts, they assigned their own numbers to manufacturers, which were entirely unrelated to the codes some of these companies already been assigned by the RZM. These were usually three digits, but some earlier ones were one or two digits and others had four (like the 1194 buttons). The SS required that insignia produced under their contracts be marked with their manufacturer number followed by a slash [occasionally a dash] and the two-digit year. As the insignia produced directly for the SS were made by RZM-contracted manufacturers, they still retained the RZM symbol.

As a result of these two systems, we now find insignia having been produced by the same manufacturer but with different markings, dependant upon whether that particular lot had been produced under contract with the RZM or with the SS directly. For Deschler, the RZM manufacturer code was 52 and the SS contract number was 254, so, we find Deschler skulls marked with either 52, produced for the RZM, or 254, produced directly for the SS.

In the case of the eagle produced by Zimmermann, which you mentioned, both marking codes were used on the same piece of insignia (SS marking “499/42” and RZM marking “M1/72”). In my opinion, this indicates the likelihood that portions of that same production run were delivered separately to both the RZM and to the SS to satisfy two different contract requirements simultaneously.