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**bschille** · 12-19-2003, 03:27 PM

Just an observation...but to me the skull in the second picture (with the M43) posted by Schönbeck is definately a german made example or one with the same characteristics. Its looks nothing like the 'vet-one'. I agree with Tony that their is little resemblance between the two other...
happy holidays

Bart

**Tony Barto** · 12-19-2003, 08:46 PM

Originally posted by Jens

J think it would be nice if everyone would put all comments in to a prober tone !!!

Have a nice X-mas

Jens

Sorry but when someone is trying to convince us that we're seeing something we're not, even after they've not only been told but shown with side by side comparisons and they ignore those comments and evidence and continue trying to convince us otherwise, I tend to get slightly suspicious and perturbed.

**CurtD** · 12-19-2003, 09:10 PM

Well, if these things are so cheap in Estonia, are you willing to ship them to the U.S.? Except, being a typical U.S. provincial ignoramus, I would prefer items that look more like the ones we are used to (please just humor me).

I'll give you a whole carton of ciggies for a nice SS helmet. I'll even go up to 2 cartons for a decent Allgemeine SS tunic.

Hell, I'll throw in a Bic lighter too.

Originally posted by Sturmmann

i didn't get this skull from same vet who i got these pics. and i assumed that this skull is estonian type on the pic because this eagle is definately.

CurtD: And he was willing to sell you this one for almost nothing when it is really worth several hundred dollars?

well in estonia vets don't even think that these things cost big money and they give these german things away for almost nothing. like i got my HBT tunic for 2 cigarettes and Wehrmacht NCO tunic for 7€.

so "big" collectors from US! what you haven't seen is total crap? if so then come to estonia and check it out yourself.

PS. but i'm still going to prove that it's OK

**Sturmmann** · 12-20-2003, 03:18 AM

hehe...yes these things are very cheap in estonia but very hard to find. if you will find a tunic from some old house in the attic then the owner doesn't even know that this thing may cost a lot of money so they give it away for free or just want 5 or 10€.
i would never send anything to US!!!

**bnz. 42** · 12-20-2003, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by Tony Barto

.. to me it's just another variation of a fake gone bad.

I completely agree here. But I would add - this is one of the ugliest fakes I have ever seen.

The chance to find a real thing for cheap in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region w:st="on">Estonia</st1:country-region> is the same as in the <ST1

USA today. I mean, very small. Even worth. Original staff is rarer there and the prices among collectors are higher. Don’t forget, Estonia was part of the Soviet Union for a long time(almost 50 years) and to keep "Nazi staff" in home there was simply dangerous (KGB could easily take you as a "Hitler follower" and send to prison). You are correct if you have assumed that for this reason there were no collectors of German Militaria. It is why almost everything that left there (in attics, basements, and sheds) is in very poor condition.
The chance to find something real in ex-Soviet Union gets even smaller because of the other numerous dreamers who still believe that they could find in a middle of nowhere some old farmer who would know nothing about computer and Internet and buy "HBT tunic for 2 cigarettes and Wehrmacht NCO tunic for 7€".
After all, who would do such a job - searching villages and graves - only kids like this Sturmmann.
P.S. IMO, there is absolutely no point for you guys, most of whom are respectful collectors here, to argue with that little boy, who has no experience, knowledge, and respect to you.

**CurtD** · 12-21-2003, 12:36 PM

I was going to suggest that we open an Estonia E-stand where all items are sold for cigarettes (with a 2 carton-of-butts limit).

**Jean-Loup** · 12-21-2003, 01:48 PM

I agree about it being just as difficult to find stuff in ex USSR than in the States. In fact, I think the best place to find stuff for cheap is the States. Over here in Europe most of the war stuf was discarded, and even vets did not keep many souvenirs.
There are massive amounts of stuff in the ex-USSR, but 99% of it is under ground...

**Robin Lumsden** · 02-03-2004, 10:21 AM

Having just read this thread for the first time, I wouldn't write off 'Sturmmann''s skull as a fake just yet. There are many wartime pictures showing odd metal skulls being worn, especially by the Finns. I don't usually like any so-called 'variants' - but this one seems different to me. For one thing, I've never seen another like it. For another, I think it's TOO BAD to be a serious fake.

**Sturmmann** · 11-21-2004, 06:11 AM

i got another one which is very different from the last one ... the one i got now is definately made in Estonia in 1944 when some Estonian SS units arrived from Russia to Estonia to defend the homeland ... here are the pictures of that ...

http://www.zone.ee/wehrmacht/-=Kolle...20(Eest).JPG?2

http://www.zone.ee/wehrmacht/-=Kolle...(Tagant).JPG?2

**Robin Lumsden** · 11-21-2004, 07:03 AM

Originally posted by Sturmmann

i got another one which is very different from the last one ... the one i got now is definately made in Estonia in 1944 when some Estonian SS units arrived from Russia to Estonia to defend the homeland ... here are the pictures of that ...

http://www.zone.ee/wehrmacht/-=Kolle...20(Eest).JPG?2

http://www.zone.ee/wehrmacht/-=Kolle...(Tagant).JPG?2

That is a very nice and rare skull. There are photos showing this type being worn by Estonian SS men. If you ever decide to sell it, please let me know.

**Sturmmann** · 11-21-2004, 07:25 AM

thanks

i might get another one soon - not sure ... if i do get it then we can make some deal i guess ... i have several photos myself where that skull can be seen ... and now the other part - the SS skull i posted here several months ago is NOT made in Estonia but it's not made in Germany too i guess ... it looks really ugly - like a watermelon or something ... i got it DIRECTLY from old drunk who found it from his house which is 6 km away from my home ... i got it with Estonian volunteer shield - 2 items costed 3 euros which is a bottle of vodka in here ... later i went back there and also found an de-nazified "SS 155/40 RZM" buckle from attic ... anyway i will post a pictures of that baboon head skull again and maybe someone can tell me where was it produced ... one is sure it is made before 1945 year - 1943 to 1944 probably ...

http://www.zone.ee/wehrmacht/-=Kolle...20(Eest).JPG?2

http://www.zone.ee/wehrmacht/-=Kolle...(Tagant).JPG?2

**Robin Lumsden** · 11-21-2004, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by Sturmmann

thanks

i might get another one soon - not sure ... if i do get it then we can make some deal i guess ... i have several photos myself where that skull can be seen ... and now the other part - the SS skull i posted here several months ago is NOT made in Estonia but it's not made in Germany too i guess ... it looks really ugly - like a watermelon or something ... i got it DIRECTLY from old drunk who found it from his house which is 6 km away from my home ... i got it with Estonian volunteer shield - 2 items costed 3 euros which is a bottle of vodka in here ... later i went back there and also found an de-nazified "SS 155/40 RZM" buckle from attic ... anyway i will post a pictures of that baboon head skull again and maybe someone can tell me where was it produced ... one is sure it is made before 1945 year - 1943 to 1944 probably ...

http://www.zone.ee/wehrmacht/-=Kolle...20(Eest).JPG?2

http://www.zone.ee/wehrmacht/-=Kolle...(Tagant).JPG?2

Very nice. When you first posted 'baboon head' a few months ago, I think I was the only person on the forum who didn't write it off as a cheap fake. Having seen the recent photos, I still maintain my previous belief that it is original.

**Larry L** · 11-29-2004, 06:19 AM

Hello Sturmmann,
Not exactly in the topic, but,
can you post pictures of that SS 155/40 buckle? (front, back, maker mark etc.)
Thanks,

L

Originally posted by Sturmmann

thanks

i might get another one soon - not sure ... if i do get it then we can make some deal i guess ... i have several photos myself where that skull can be seen ... and now the other part - the SS skull i posted here several months ago is NOT made in Estonia but it's not made in Germany too i guess ... it looks really ugly - like a watermelon or something ... i got it DIRECTLY from old drunk who found it from his house which is 6 km away from my home ... i got it with Estonian volunteer shield - 2 items costed 3 euros which is a bottle of vodka in here ... later i went back there and also found an de-nazified "SS 155/40 RZM" buckle from attic ... anyway i will post a pictures of that baboon head skull again and maybe someone can tell me where was it produced ... one is sure it is made before 1945 year - 1943 to 1944 probably ...

http://www.zone.ee/wehrmacht/-=Kolle...20(Eest).JPG?2

http://www.zone.ee/wehrmacht/-=Kolle...(Tagant).JPG?2

**Sturmmann** · 11-29-2004, 06:28 AM

it is 155/43 not 155/40 ... but if You still want to see the pictures then give me Your e-mail address because i can't post pictures in here!

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