6-strand bordered cuff titles?

[Rheinmetall]

This topic may have been covered here before but my searches have been inconclusive so far. Can the SS cuff title experts here please share your insight into 6-strand bordered CT's....were they particularly early, only certain manufactures, or just fantasy?

I ask because I had recently seen two officer flatwire bands, one Deutchland and one Germania, that had a 6-strand border and appeared to be legit.

[mmurray306]

Great question! Is the six strand fact or fiction?

[phild]

Great question! Is the six strand fact or fiction?

It is a fact that a number of different SS cuff titles were made with 6 strand borders during the period. I think that there is a consensus on that statement, but perhaps not everyone would agree on all of the titles that are known and considered oringal with 6 strands.

[N.C. Wyeth]

Not too many people were eager to delve into the question when I last inquired:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=331167&highlight=der+fuhrer+cufft itle

Let us see who continues to champion the question over time - it would be nice to see the study come to exhausted conclusion some day . . .

[Rheinmetall]

Perhaps someone could ask Dave Delich or Jim Toncar to offer their thoughts in this thread. I'm sure they have had extensive experience with CT's over the years and could contribute some good insight.

[Hohenstaufen]

Hello, Six strand bands do exist and I have seen the following: RZM Totenkopf, DAS Reich, and Prinz Eugen, which were IMO textbook period made pieces. Regards, Grant

[Gary Symonds]

Ulrich of England in vol. 2 of his cuffband book, show 6 strand bands. They are original.

[John T]

Deutschland is another one that is okay with six...I am sure there are plenty...thing is some old fakes from what I know had six so some said six were bad and seven were good but it was not that clear cut but then again what is in this hobby?

J

[BryanD]

This question has always baffeled me. Not being an SS collector per se I was told in the 70's by advanced collectors that 6 strand were fakes. I used this as a mantra for 30 plus years. The few that I do have from veterans are 7 strand. Now I find out that there are some that are 6 strand. For any that I may have snubed over the years my deepest apologies.
Now after the self fagelation I am very happy to find out that there wre references on this very subject. I love this forum.

[phild]

This question has always baffeled me. Not being an SS collector per se I was told in the 70's by advanced collectors that 6 strand were fakes. I used this as a mantra for 30 plus years. The few that I do have from veterans are 7 strand. Now I find out that there are some that are 6 strand. For any that I may have snubed over the years my deepest apologies.
Now after the self fagelation I am very happy to find out that there wre references on this very subject. I love this forum.

Don't worry about past bad advice based on "old Wives tales", there are new old wives tales being created almost every day in the hobby! Maybe with the help of mediums like the forum and objective consideration from those who study these items we will one day get past most of this......then guys won't have to walk around the MAX show with black garbage bags on their heads carrying UV lights.

[Richard P]

Don't worry about past bad advice based on "old Wives tales", there are new old wives tales being created almost every day in the hobby! Maybe with the help of mediums like the forum and objective consideration from those who study these items we will one day get past most of this......then guys won't have to walk around the MAX show with black garbage bags on their heads carrying UV lights.

Phil,

Ha ha ha ha....too funny!

Richard

[Rheinmetall]

I'm hoping to keep this thread going because I believe there is potential to get some helpful posts added by collectors who may be able to share photos of known authentic pieces within their collections. Anything that helps to prove or disprove misinformation within the hobby is beneficial to us all.

[Bob Hritz]

There certainly are original 6 strand cuff titles. I attach a photo of 2 original Reinhard Heydrich titles: the top band with 6 strands, the bottom band with 7 strands.

Bob Hritz

[jimt]

5-6

The six strand bordered cufftitle was for sure made by Ken Lane, of all the 6 strand titles mentioned in prior postings all where made in the standard 7 strand border form , so I think a better "safe than sorry " approach would be to get it in this proven pattern ? Prior to 1938 there was a manufacturer with the RZM code# 21, Steingraeber@Sohne that used a base band with alternating 5/6 strand borders , Jason Burmiester acquired directly from a vet a very large cache of this manufacturers SS cloth and political insignia most of which where salesman samples from this factory , there was also a banner showing the company logo . this happened in about 1990 . These early pattern cufftitles with 5-6 borders are not a problem #21 was a very early and large manufacturer of SS cloth /Political insignia. This pattern I readily accept. The 6 strand has never been accepted for one reason or another so if you can get a textbook 7 strand bordered sleeveband with propererly formed letters why bother with something that carries with it this un-proven element . Collecting for me is about minimal braindamage and sleeping well after buying some of these rarer things .

[Bob Hritz]

Jim,

Ken Lane surely did have a lot of unused cuff title band material with 6 strands. He had the embroidery done in Germany or Austria, from the late 1950s until the early 1970s. Of course, once he used up the original 6 strand band material, he used post-war made bands, which were the bulk of his copies..

Ken Lane's embroidery was not up to the standards of WWII production. His cuff titles are pretty easy to detect.

I agree that it is much safer to collect only 7 strand bordered RZM cuff titles, but there are originals with 6 strands and there are originals with alternating 5/6 strands. These two types will never have the acceptability or value of those with 7 strands.

Bob Hritz

ps: As a sidenote, Ken Lane was an American soldier who fought in WWII and found his chances for financial success were much greater in feeding the demand for war souvenirs than going back to the farm. He spent the rest of his life in Vienna and sold many originals, but was also responsible for selling many-many post war produced medals, badges, insignia, flags, etc.