What the old wallet contained........

[C. Kleijn]

I don't see any problems and I think you have acquired an exteremely rare grouping. Indeed, most soldiers keep wearing their tags from their replacement unit, in this case the Totenkopf-Ersatz-Bataillon, while serving in regular combat units. I know of a Dutch veteran who served in the 48. SS-Freiw.-Panzergrenadier-Regiment "General Seyffardt" while he was wearing his Erkennungsmarke from the "Westland" Ersatz-Bataillon...

'Are all the pieces supposed to be from the same person? The dogtag does not match the info on the documents and the TTK, I can't say i have ever seen an authentic one like that-must be one of those unusual variations......'

I don't know why some people think the items are not from the same person? Do you think the dog tag should match the documents? Do you really think that when the soldier got his dog tag, when he was in the Ersatz-Abteilung, that it was known in which unit he should come after his training? Or do you think that the Waffen-SS by order of the SS-FHA simply changed the dog tags when someone went from one unit to the other? Well, that would be a hell of a problem and unnecessary bureaucracy. I think they had better things to do. I know another Dutch veteran who served in seven Waffen-SS units throughout the war and it's nonsense that he should exchanging his dog tag every time he enlisted in another unit.

'Sorry AJ,don't mean to piddle on your chips but the fact it contains items from different people and a repro TK IMHO makes me think twice about jumping up and down about it. An interesting find none the less.'

Dan, why a fake skull and why do you think it contains items from different people?? I really don't understand these assessments...

AJ, you have a marvelous grouping and I know how hard it is to get such groupings from foreign volunteers. Price yourself lucky! I will be in Denmark within some weeks. Perhaps we can meet up somewhere?

All the best,
Cees

[AJ]

Hi
Thanks for all for taking time to response to this thread.
In my mind there is no doubt all items found in that wallet are 100 % original pre-May 1945.
I can see myself, that the skull does not match all textbook examples of known original skulls, but again do we know all variants made during the war ?
Some time ago, someone posted alot of photos showing Baltic WSS volunteers, some with some very strange collarpatches. If one of these turned up today no one would belive in them too.
All this makes me wonder, how much original and rare stuff have been lost on that account ?
Dan T I really respect your opinion, but you still ned to explain to me, why you think this group can not come from the same person ?

By the way cees, just drop me an email, and I'll gladly be your host
Best regards
Alex

[Konigstiger]

I agree that all this is real, It seems that almost all German ww2 items vary, so why not a totenkopf. Things made in diffrent "factories" with different materials by unskilled and forced workers Will come out different.

Cool find for sure!

[Jens]

Reply

Ok at first j dont consider any the IMO as a copy.

That said. J obtained not long ago a huge collection of a EX-Nordland-Norge collection form a Danish (german-minority)vet with consited some pos-t-war bought-items although these were not WSS.

Secondly, J have obtained from other Vet , original items which did not belong to the vet, but to another vet, still though original. So a lot of items doesnt aways belong to the same guy. but could still be very original. Of all the Dogtags J have from the Waffen SS, they alle kept the original although they were asigned to other units. Also if one today make an official request to the authorities J belive that the original tag will be a good start.

Just my humble thoughts

Still a good hunt AJ !!!!!!

jens

[Dan T]

Well AJ you have had many positives from the big hitters on this and other forums which must point towards the stuff being real. Nice one. However, my opinion was just that "an opinion" made on visually comparing yours with known examples in Cloth Insignia of the SS by Bender, SS regalia,the Soldat books and Mollo's volumes 1-6. I didn't see your TK in there. If I am wrong then someone please send me the page number. I am not big on the "variants" line. That has been used as by peddlars of trash and repros for too long. I do accept though that Volunteer units in the east often hand made items as an expedient. But the skull you have shown appears machine woven so I would have thought more of these originals would have surfaced post war.Cees has well explained the differences in name and I accept his findings.

[SgtB]

Hey Dan!

Open "Cloth Insignia of the SS" to page 453. Right at the bottom of the page
you will see 4 variants. What the hell have you been smoking, boy?

[Paulh]

Tk

AJ,

Thanks for the great photo. The solider in the overseas cap is wearing a embroidered tk, which has been cut down from a TK collar tab. I have a similar picture. This was done either because of supply problems or on some officers, probably personal preference.

All of the EM and Officer versions of the cloth tks have never been documented in one reference. The best to date is Frank Thayers 1995 article on SS Head Gear Insignia for the Military Advisor. It shows quite a few. I believe Mike Beaver is going to include a lot in his upcoming Insignia book. I'd love to do a book/artilce just on cloth TKs and traps, but I am sure no one would buy something so narrow in focus.

Yours is a nice original.

Paul

[Tony Barto]

I've got one that was cut from a 1st pattern flatwire Oberbayern band that was used on a cap. I'll post pix of it later.

[Dan T]

[QUOTE=Brian Bonini]Hey Dan!

Open "Cloth Insignia of the SS" to page 453. Right at the bottom of the page
you will see 4 variants. What the hell have you been smoking, boy?

Don't smoke mate unless I am making lurve.

Checked page 453. Sorry mate the TK from the wallet just ain't there....
But yes other "variants" are!

[SgtB]

Don't smoke mate unless I am making lurve.

Very good Dan! I was hopin' you wouldn't take that the wrong way!

Checked page 453. Sorry mate the TK from the wallet just ain't there....
But yes other "variants" are!

You're right, but several aren't. So...

[Tony Barto]

Hi Paul;

I think you're wrong. I think people would go for it. There are so many variations that one could make a very nice collection on TK's and traps alone.