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**Robert H** · 02-08-2009, 01:54 PM

which dealer is now in discussion, the dealer from the great coat or who?

Bob, no it is not always about who is paying more or not as other would do that too in the line of sources, trust me about this one.
Right time right place and you might get it, and nothing is impossible as you might know it too.

**PMan** · 02-08-2009, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by Robert H View Post

which dealer is now in discussion, the dealer from the great coat or who?

Bob, no it is not always about who is paying more or not as other would do that too in the line of sources, trust me about this one.
Right time right place and you might get it, and nothing is impossible as you might know it too.

Very good point Robert!

**PMan** · 02-08-2009, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by M B CHISHOLM View Post

Thank you for the reply's guys.. any more will be welcomed.

What? How much more of this do you need??? Go to the Oberbayern tunic thread if you you want way more than this!!

**John Pic** · 02-08-2009, 03:50 PM

I guess it depends.. you can put a common IAB on a little jewelers pedestal with a velvet cloth drape around it and sell it for $300
Or you can buy one for $75-100 from Joe hacking cough retiree with 100 cracked broken yellowed riker mounts held together with rubber bands cause he's been enjoying the hobby for a millenium...and you get the same thing. I dont agree that how an item is marketed justifys the pricing..and Im not talking Goerings Baton or fingernail..Im talking about Gefreiter Hans' tunic or his helmet.

As for the overcoat well like I said if you want something you know for sure was used by an SS officer I would be skeptical.

**Bob Hritz** · 02-08-2009, 04:26 PM

John,

I agree about the common or mundane. However, when Steve was visiting, last wek, he noticed I was building a fighter pilot flight set up. In the mail, a week later, I receive the rarest early Battle of Britian, gabardine fighter pilot jacket. It was terribly expensive, but many advanced collectors have been looking for one for many years, without success. I guess having it saves me the time and money of searching for the bargain. I will just have to average it with itemns I have gotten at lower prices. He had it because he paid the high price when Robert Cress's collection was sold. I have it because I paid the high price.

Bob Hritz

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**Robert H** · 02-08-2009, 04:36 PM

Bob, for sure most of your items you have are not because you paid the highest price for it. All is pending on the situation and most of the desire.

**Bob Hritz** · 02-08-2009, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by Robert H View Post

Bob, for sure most of your items you have are not because you paid the highest price for it. All is pending on the situation and most of the desire.

Exactly, Robert. I have paid some incredibly high prices for certain things, but have found most by diligent hunting, advertising, and networking with other collectors.

Bob Hritz

**phild** · 02-08-2009, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by Bobwirtz View Post

I find it interesting that somebody would make a greatcoat out of that material... seems inappropriate for such a garment. The Italian gaberdine is a stiff material and I wouldn't have had a greatcoat made from it. Be that as it may. If the BR number is authentic then this would be made for enlisted personnel and taken by an officer to have his unique insignia added. As such, greatcoats were very curtailed towards the end of the war, giving to the camouflaged parkas, which were far more warmer and user-friendly, that is, anybody who has worn a greatcoat during a reenactment and in a combat situation has noted that they are considerable cumbersome, one ends up kneeling on them and tripping over them. The two-piece parkas were superior in allowing better performance.

IMHO, I don't have much faith in this greatcoat. I wouldn't want it in my collection. My 2 cents worth for what is it worth.

Bob

Bob, I'm not sure that I know where to start in response to your above post.

1. This is an officers MADE greatcoat, that is without any question. This coat is cut different than any EM greatcoat from the period that it had to have been made in ....Post mid 42 and more probably mid 43 thru mid 44. This coat has no rear inverted pleat, smaller dark green faced collar, no slash side pockets (often found at least) I assume a full rayon lining....never found on issue EM greatcoats.

2. The material was used because they had it and it was excellent for wind proof qualities (unlike standard German uniform wool) and maybe because they (the SS?) were already using this material extensivly for contract officer uniform items such as tunics, breeches, M-43 caps and even peak caps....so why not greatcoats?

3. Officers were buying and wearing greatcoats up until the end of the war...whatever the general phase out of these may have been in terms of EM combat winter wear, it did not apply to officers, especially in non-combat assignments.

4. I have seen these overcoats with these same characteristics going back close to 30 years ago. They were not fake back then and I will bet my house and collection on it if anyone can show that I am wrong.

Now as always with any uniform that exist we are back down to when the insignia was applied?

I believe that there is nothing that would indicate a problem with the insignia attachment in the photos. I also believe that there are a lot of uniforms out there that have perfect looking applied insignia that is in fact post war applied. My point has been for about 10 years now, that unless you were there or know for a fact that the insignia was appiled (you saw the item with no or different insignia for instance) then there is no way to prove it one way or the other.

**John Pic** · 02-08-2009, 07:27 PM

Bob I agree when its time to find the very rare he is the one to go to..he earned that by his ability to aquire these things.

Phild...as for insignia application there are tailors out there skilled in the Eurpean schools that can masterfully recreate the past.

Im going to shut up because years ago it was the advanced collectors warning people including me, not to buy the unproven tunics...and I went blue in the face defending the sellers of these tunics.
But my stance has since changed after doing years (1985-2008) of study on who,what,when,where and how of fakery of SS officer uniforms..

**Bob Hritz** · 02-08-2009, 08:16 PM

Originally posted by John Pic View Post

Bob I agree when its time to find the very rare he is the one to go to..he earned that by his ability to aquire these things.

Phild...as for insignia application there are tailors out there skilled in the Eurpean schools that can masterfully recreate the past.

Im going to shut up because years ago it was the advanced collectors warning people including me, not to buy the unproven tunics...and I went blue in the face defending the sellers of these tunics.
But my stance has since changed after doing years (1985-2008) of study on who,what,when,where and how of fakery of SS officer uniforms..

Your input is valued by myself and many others. While we do not always agree, your insight helps me think from other angles.

Bob Hritz

**phild** · 02-08-2009, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by John Pic View Post

Bob I agree when its time to find the very rare he is the one to go to..he earned that by his ability to aquire these things.

Phild...as for insignia application there are tailors out there skilled in the Eurpean schools that can masterfully recreate the past.

Im going to shut up because years ago it was the advanced collectors warning people including me, not to buy the unproven tunics...and I went blue in the face defending the sellers of these tunics.
But my stance has since changed after doing years (1985-2008) of study on who,what,when,where and how of fakery of SS officer uniforms..

John,

You are preaching to the choir with your statement about the skill of some current tailors in Europe and elsewhere. That has been one of the main points that I have been trying to make with my input into this thread.

It could be the case that the entire coat is a fake, but that would still not change the fact that I have examined several contract officers coats of this exact type that were not fake....no one seems to be able to explain a contract officers overcoat, but they certainly exist.

My main confusion is exactly what or who does a tunic (or anthing else) need to be associated with in order to be "Proven"?

One thing is for sure and that is the last 3 serious items of SS uniform that sincere people have submitted to this forum for contructive review have ended up in a sort of SS uniform Purgatory. That is not to say that many did not contribute constructive review, they did, but perhaps it is beyond the capabilities of the forum to pass a sound judgement on a SS uniform that is much more involved than something like a costume piece or a amateur fabrication.

I just noticed that the overcoat has been removed from the site so perhaps it has been released from purgatory and has gone on to a higher or lower place.

**John Pic** · 02-09-2009, 01:18 AM

Ive often thought about that many of my uniforms shown here and elsewhere were cast into "purgatory" because none of mine had any real proof of thier origins as complete pieces.People buy what they like Ive seen many uniforms that wouldnt satisfy me in collections but when it comes to investing thousands in SS uniforms my advice is dont waste it..buy the item expecting it to be a put together and if its not then you got lucky.Proof is sometimes in the materials used and the wear from the insignias..but when it has something that raises a question like RB number..think about it if you want to explain that all the time.

I had a summer tunic that could be proven to have originated with the SS but the insignias showed signs of being changed at some point in its history.

I had the very fine Cavalry officers uniform that was said to have been found sealed in a wall in Bavaria..it was made of material used by the SS for summer uniforms made for the SD and no breast eagle signs.

I had the Wiesenbock uniform that seemed to be a private tailored piece with the original tabs and Alte kampfer chevron..but the Eagle and the DKG and possibly the boards were post war replacements..it was named but no direct connection could be made.

Others were nice but either had no wear,eagle shadows on the breast,strange insignias when examined up close. Materials used in the liner Id never encountered in original Heer tunics. I couldnt say they were real or not..and then I started getting more solid info about the shenanigans some of the sellers were up to. So the Cavalry was the best one IMO but I just paid too much and it wasnt worth it, I was exhausted by all this..I collect inexpensive things now and have fun doing it.

**PMan** · 02-09-2009, 11:36 AM

Greatcoat

[quote=phild;3080936]
"i just noticed that the overcoat has been removed from the site so perhaps it has been released from purgatory and has gone on to a higher or lower place."[/quote
SOLD

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Waffen officers greatcoat

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