Waffen officers greatcoat

[M B CHISHOLM]

Gentlemen, I need your opinions of this piece before possible negotiations begin. I have been looking for one for some time and would appreciate your feedback concerning it.

http://www.relicsofthereich.com/home.php

[Ian Hulley]

There's only the one photo and nothing much to go on ... it's grey ... and that's about it really.

Ian.

[M B CHISHOLM]

Thanks, I just requested the photos to be replaced. I was not aware they were taken away so Please check back later.

[M B CHISHOLM]

They are now available.

[phild]

If you are considering buying the coat I am sorry to do this to you, but I will say that I like it. That opinion may have a negative impact on the subsequent input that you receive hence my apology up front!

There are a number of interesting and seemingly conflicting characteristics about overcoats of this exact type (I have seen maybe 4 of this exact type in 30-35 years), in other words this is a contract OC and is an identifiable type or variation...rather than a private made officers greatcoat that may or may not have been SS badged during the war. Nor is it a contract EM greatcoat that has been simply badged for an officer...in this case a SS officer.

The Rbnr as it may or may not relate to SS uniforms presents other intersting questions. What I can not tell from the photos is if the coat is full lined (hem to collar) and if so is it with the hbt silver grey rayon as seen on the one partial photo? I also can say one way or the other about the eagle as I do not know a lot about the better flatwire fakes. One last thing that I would want to check is if the dark green collar facing was put on when manufactured or added later for the wearer?

I want to see where this thread will go, if anywhere, and I will shut up for change.

[John Pic]

Personally I would not buy that coat for reasons that cannot be talked about here but based on my own cynical knowledge of things...that gets me into trouble. In my honest personal opinion...highly posssible.... a post war make up.

[NTZ]

Why would an RBN# be in a private purchase SS greatcoat? Now there is a puzzle. Just to add I have owned a number of Heer contract & private purchase greatcoats and have yet to see an RBN#. To me not only does it put doubt in it being an SS coat but also a period coat.

[Luca Ongaro]

To me not only does it put doubt in it being an SS coat but also a period coat.

Insignia is good and nice, no doubts.
I'd like to see better pictures of the lining because seems not IIWW Italian HBT by those pictures.
Luca

[phild]

Why would an RBN# be in a private purchase SS greatcoat? Now there is a puzzle. Just to add I have owned a number of Heer contract & private purchase greatcoats and have yet to see an RBN#. To me not only does it put doubt in it being an SS coat but also a period coat.

Nick, As I tried to hint earlier, that coat is not a private purchase coat....or more exactly stated; the coat may be in fact be a coat intended to be purchased by an officer, but it was certainly made under a military contract and not for an EM or for "general issue". Now figure that one out!

Maybe John knows something about the background of the attachement of the insignia on this coat that I don't know. I know nothing about that aspect of it, so anything that is known is more than I know about that.

I have every reason to believe that the coat itself is original....I know that the several others that I have spent a lot of hands on time with decades ago were and they were just like this one...at least from the photos.

As to the insignia being all original period items...I don't know, but the boards look perfect to me as does their attachment. Even if the insignia is replaced, that would not mean that the coat was not orginally an SS officer used coat...We are back to what about 5000 pages of text on this forum have focused on and in many cases danced around for the last 10 years..and that is simply "When was it applied?"!

IMO the question is this: What is the intented use and what organization commissioned/contracted circa 1943/44 for a full rayon lined overcoat with dark blue/green collar facing (dropped 3-4 years earlier from contract EM OCs) to be made out of captured Italien worsted/gaberdine "Iron" cloth? I will also add did that organization contract with makers who were assigned and or applied RBnr to their products made for said organization....or do we know?

[NTZ]

Nick, As I tried to hint earlier, that coat is not a private purchase coat....or more exactly stated; the coat may be in fact be a coat intended to be purchased by an officer, but it was certainly made under a military contract and not for an EM or for "general issue". Now figure that one out!

Ok, you lost me. Is there an in between? I though you have "contract" & "private purchase". Are you saying it may be an officer’s coat purchased though the Offizier’s kleiderkasse? If so then why would an SS coat be purchased through the Heer Kleiderkasse? I still never seen anything like this with an RBN#. That in itself states is was a full-authorized production. Every single Heer officers greatcoat I have ever seen was private purchase unless it was an upgraded EM/NCO.

[John Pic]

"When was it applied?"!


Exactly

[phild]

Ok, you lost me. Is there an in between? I though you have "contract" & "private purchase". Are you saying it may be an officer’s coat purchased though the Offizier’s kleiderkasse? If so then why would an SS coat be purchased through the Heer Kleiderkasse? I still never seen anything like this with an RBN#. That in itself states is was a full-authorized production. Every single Heer officers greatcoat I have ever seen was private purchase unless it was an upgraded EM/NCO.

I agree entirely or at least almost. I know no secret about this type of OC, but I know of only one service that contracted officer items that were not commercially marked and intended for direct sale to it's officers and you know which one that was as well.

I would like to know if this coat has a depot letter and date ink stamp?

We know and I think all agree that the SS version of their Officers kleiderkasse offered every basic item of officer's uniform. Could these be of a batch that they had made up for re-sale circa 1943/44? That is the question (I have no answer) that I have been asking myself for a long time on these. They make no sense as a Heer overcoat with these details and of that period.

[PMan]

Great Coat

The sleeve eagle on the coat is worth $2K by itself. Nice iron gab. Nice boards. Rare green old fighters. Its priced right! Offer $4500 and go for it before I do.
Peter Manzie

[John Pic]

Ive never seen one of those eagles sell for $2000 on any dealer site..not even uncut.

But if you want the insignias buy it... it might be a decent deal for just those. But if you want something that was worn by an officer of the SS..Id pass.

[PMan]

Great Coat

Yea, John's right. One day, who knows, you may find one with provinance to an actual SS officer. This coat will cost you 20K if and when it finally comes along. Anyway. I paid $1500 for the last flatwire sleeve eagle and that was 3 years ago. Again, this is a really cool piece and that eagle is to die for. The boards are nice too.
Peter