1st pattern Jawless cap skull thread

[chainsawrich]

1st Patteren Skull...???

IS THIS SKULL GOOD OR BAD ? I HAVE NEVER HAD ONE IN HAND BEFORE SO I REALLY DONT KNOW WHAT TO LOOK FOR. ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED..... A FEW PICS

[chainsawrich]

A FEW MORE

[chainsawrich]

LAST PICS

[sgstandard]

Skull

You won't get many replies on these because there are quite a few variations of originals. Originals I've seen are not flexible and do not bend easily. They're generally NOT marked, though original examples exist that are RZM marked, and those also say Ges.Gesch and St.&L., the manufacturer. Even oxidized examples usually have a shiny tin-like appearance showing through, almost like chrome. Yours exhibits this characteristic from the photos. I'd say it's authentic. Do NOT attempt to polish the metal. I'd take a soft cotton cloth, and rub the front surface gently. You can clean the back side with a cotton Q-tip, carefully. Here's mine:

[sgstandard]

Skull

Another.... (same manufacturer)

[Robin Lumsden]

IS THIS SKULL GOOD OR BAD ?

It's good...............a known original type found on some 2nd Leibhusaren caps c.1900. They are usually gilded, rather than silver.

This type is characterised by the surplus metal 'die flaw' below the jaw, shown here by the red arrow.

[Robin Lumsden]

Here's a similar one I have.

Note the same die flaw (red arrow) and the gilding.

[chainsawrich]

Thanks guys I was hoping it was a good one. I now have a little knowledge also for next time....thankyou....

Rich

[sgstandard]

Skull

It's tough to get a lot of feedback on these skulls because there seems to have been many variations from different manufacturers, and were far from standardized. Most are unmarked, although the St.&L. ones are RZM and maker marked, and also say Ges.Gesch. I can't see anything wrong, although the mottled effect, especially on the back is somewhat reminiscent of fake oxidation I've seen. I'M NOT SURE ON THIS. IT MAY JUST BE AUTHENTIC AGING. Fakes I've seen years ago were very flexible and bent easily. If I had to guess, though, I'd say it was probably good. Here's a couple other examples to compare the aging and patina.

[sgstandard]

Skull

Probably SS, though the Danzig Police wore a similar totenkopf with shortened bones like this.

[sgstandard]

Skull

Back..

[sgstandard]

Skull

Actually, after looking again, the last I skull posted has similar oxidation traits as the one you posted. The first skull I posted is an ST.&L., and these have an almost tin plate appearance (especially on the back) as opposed to a metal wash. This next photo shows that effect. I'm pretty sure your skull is good. These jawless skulls aren't faked near as much, because originals are not terribly expensive. The plating:

[Sergeant 08]

Is it possible to see a front photo of the last "octopus" skull?

[sgstandard]

Octopus Skull

OK...This is the front..

[sgstandard]

Octopus Skull

This last skull posted is cap size, NOT the smaller Panzer collar tab size.