SS Officer Brocade Belt

[bwanek1]

Gentlemen,

I normally do not collect this sort of thing, so I am looking for some help from those who specialize in this area. What are your thoughts about this belt?

Thanks,
Brad

[bwanek1]

x

[bwanek1]

x

[PMan]

Belt

Does the leather have tiny seperate SS RZM marks?
Peter

[bwanek1]

Does the leather have tiny seperate SS RZM marks?
Peter

You got me, brother. All I have is the same photos you are seeing.

If I can find out from the seller, would those be a good sign of originality or something only found on reproductions?

[tgn]

If the buckle is good, so is the belt, I guess. And vice versa...

Tom

[bwanek1]

If the buckle is good, so is the belt, I guess. And vice versa...

Tom

Tom,

<O</OI respectfully disagree.<O

I have seen original cap insignia put on fake caps for display purposes. I have also seen original caps which were stripped of their insignia having fakes added to "complete" them until replacement originals could be found. Of course both situations have also been found on items being sold by dishonest sellers trying to increase the attractiveness of their fakes and improve their profit margin. Though I do not normally collect belts and buckles, I am sure that the same (rigs made of both good and bad parts) can be found in that area as well.<O

I might be inclined to doubt the originality of either the belt or buckle if the other is known to be fake (guilt by association), but I would never presume that either were original just because the other is original.<O

Brad<O</O

[John Pic]

Can I see a close up of the brocade weave. The leather on originals I have owned was always rather thin.

[bwanek1]

This is the only other photo I have from the seller.

[Gary B]

Dear Brad,

Without beetter pictures of the Obvs/Rvs of thebuckle as well as close ups of the brocade weave pattern it wil be impossible to tell.

To address the issue of "if the buckle is ok the brocade must be ok and vice versa", this is not ture. I know of original buckles being sewn to repro brocades, and also of original buckles being postwar matched to brocades to enhance value (Luft General buckle to brocade).

Gary B

[bwanek1]

All:

Many thanks for taking the time to respond.

Having now studied many photos from threads I found on the belts/buckles forum, I have come to the conclusion that this one is a fake. Despite the poor photos, the oak leaf pattern now seems to be an obvious giveaway to me.

Now, I will go back to insignia, where I belong!

Thanks again,
Brad

[tgn]

Normally I would agree with both of you. But in this case, it is doubtful that someone with a real belt would machine sew attach a fake buckle, and vice versa, since both are so valuable by themselves. Of course it is possible, especially if done a long time ago. But what I was tying to say is if you know the buckle is good, it would probably be worthwhile to take a chance on the belt also being good. On the other hand, it you knew the belt was good, there is a good chance the buckle is also. But if either the buckle or belt was a known repro, I wouldn't bother taking a risk on the other being good either. Probably dumb logic, but I don't have a lot of luck guessing on vague photos.

Tom

[tgn]

All:

Many thanks for taking the time to respond.

Having now studied many photos from threads I found on the belts/buckles forum, I have come to the conclusion that this one is a fake. Despite the poor photos, the oak leaf pattern now seems to be an obvious giveaway to me.

Now, I will go back to insignia, where I belong!

Thanks again,
Brad

Gee, it sounds like you used my logic to pass on this. You don't like the belt, so why bother with the buckle.

Tom

[bwanek1]

Gee, it sounds like you used my logic to pass on this. You don't like the belt, so why bother with the buckle.

Tom

Hardly.

Reread my earlier post. In it, I said that I believe it quite possible to find a mix of bad and good (caps, belts, uniforms). One can not, as you suggested, conclude that the belt or buckle is good or bad simply based on the item with which it is paired. I did concede that I would be skeptical of one if the other turned out to be bad, but that fact alone would not be conclusive evidence that it is also a fake.

I also don't believe that I made any statement at all regarding whether I intended to "pass" or whether I would or would not "bother" with the buckle. However, in this case, there would be no reason to investigate the buckle further, as the seller does not wish to break up the set. Even if it did turn out to be an original buckle, I would not be interested in overpaying the cost of a complete belt and buckle set, just to get an original buckle. So, for that reason, I have, in fact, decided to not "bother" with the buckle.

[tgn]

Even if it did turn out to be an original buckle, I would not be interested in overpaying the cost of a complete belt and buckle set, just to get an original buckle. So, for that reason, I have, in fact, decided to not "bother" with the buckle.

Exactly my point.

Tom