Officer's Tab set

[Felix]

[quote=Francesco;2586346]Felix and Peter,the tabs on this thread are with 3 and not 2 strand twisted piping!!!

Sorry Francesco... I need to contact my optician
Ok, I saw wrong its obviously 3 strands then....

Cheers,
"Felix" - N. Hansson

[PMan]

2 strands

Drunk too much coffee today? You need to chill down a bit...
I can agree on that it might have existed on a few originals. Its a very rare thing with two wire twisted borders that one needs to be extra careful with these. Im sure you understand this. Taken into consideration the amount of fakes with two strand borders INCLUDING the other signs here its a give away. Hence my writing.

I hope you understand what I mean.

Best regards
"Felix" - N. Hansson

For sure, 2 strand piping is less common than 3, but it is not "very rare". I will need to check when I get home, but to my recollection. you see it mostly on allgemeine tunics. Myself, I have a vet acquired tunic and great coat with 2 stranded piped tabs. I will quote the page numbers from the Beaver 3 volume set later tonight. In conclusion, there is no way I would rule out a tab based on it having 2 strand piping.
Peter

[Felix]

For sure, 2 strand piping is less common than 3, but it is not "very rare". I will need to check when I get home, but to my recollection. you see it mostly on allgemeine tunics. Myself, I have a vet acquired tunic and great coat with 2 stranded piped tabs. I will quote the page numbers from the Beaver 3 volume set later tonight. In conclusion, there is no way I would rule out a tab based on it having 2 strand piping.
Peter

Peter, just because you have a jacket like this and seen photos of it in a book doesnt mean its common or acceptable in all cases. Believe me that you need to be extra careful when encountering a two strand tab. If everything else looks ok and with provenace I might agree and accept it. Out of a 100 tabs with twisted borders how many with two strands do you find? Maybe one.... I would say less...

I still say its a very rare thing for original tabs. This is my experience of ss cloth and hence my opinion.

However this is not relevant about the tabs in this thead, so lets get back to topic.

Best regards,
"Felix" - N. Hansson

[PMan]

2 strands

Peter, just because you have a jacket like this and seen photos of it in a book doesnt mean its common or acceptable in all cases. Believe me that you need to be extra careful when encountering a two strand tab. If everything else looks ok and with provenace I might agree and accept it. Out of a 100 tabs with twisted borders how many with two strands do you find? Maybe one.... I would say less...

I still say its a very rare thing for original tabs. This is my experience of ss cloth and hence my opinion.

However this is not relevant about the tabs in this thead, so lets get back to topic.

Best regards,
"Felix" - N. Hansson

Sorry Felix, but the topic in the thread is pretty much to bed already, so please open Volume 1 of Mike Beavers books on ss uniforms. On pages 48, 59, 61, ans 244 you will see 2 strand piped tabs on original tunics. Pages 61 and 244 are the rank tabs only. Add to that 4 tabs that I have on an allgemeine rig, plus another numbered set that I have, NOT "very rare" if you ask me. If anyone has any tabs that they don't like because they are 2 strand piped, please let me know as soon as possible!!!

[sgstandard]

Strands

My ex-wife's hair is down to 2 strands, and she's DEFINITELY an original.

[N.C. Wyeth]

My ex-wife's hair is down to 2 strands, and she's DEFINITELY an original.

Ouch! That's not going to get you Breakfast in the morning!

I'm happy to see all of the explanations behind why they believe the tabs are not pre-1945. It sure beats the typical "I could entertain some doubt", or something else of the same level of inconsideration . . .

I had a bad reaction about them as well, but I also enjoy hearing all of the various opinions for why that is.

I'm sure we all feel better when we are offered a reason behind someone else's opinion whenever we ask for such - it's a simple common courtesy I think we should all expect to receive and be willing to offer . . .

Keep up the good work!

Brad

[Felix]

Sorry Felix, but the topic in the thread is pretty much to bed already, so please open Volume 1 of Mike Beavers books on ss uniforms. On pages 48, 59, 61, ans 244 you will see 2 strand piped tabs on original tunics. Pages 61 and 244 are the rank tabs only. Add to that 4 tabs that I have on an allgemeine rig, plus another numbered set that I have, NOT "very rare" if you ask me. If anyone has any tabs that they don't like because they are 2 strand piped, please let me know as soon as possible!!!

Peter, I do not have those books so I cant check what you talk about in the specifical pages and photos you refer to. I can only speak of the officer grade tabs with piping I have in my collection, have had in my collection, seen in other collections, seen posted here and elsewhere. In total that makes quite a number of tabs.
How can you actually know if an officer tab has two strands or three when its still on a tunic? For me this sounds quite difficult and especially on early tunics where the piping sometimes can be a bit finer and have a sharper rotating twist.

I get a funny feeling we are talking apples and oranges here. Are you talking about the black/silver alternate piping of the Allg SS/ SS VT /SS TV tabs?
My statements are solely about the officer grade all silver piping because thats what the initial tab looked like and thats what we are talking about right? I hope you do not mix things up here.

Best regards,
"Felix" - N. Hansson

[PMan]

2 strands

Peter, I do not have those books so I cant check what you talk about in the specifical pages and photos you refer to. I can only speak of the officer grade tabs with piping I have in my collection, have had in my collection, seen in other collections, seen posted here and elsewhere. In total that makes quite a number of tabs.
How can you actually know if an officer tab has two strands or three when its still on a tunic? For me this sounds quite difficult and especially on early tunics where the piping sometimes can be a bit finer and have a sharper rotating twist.

I get a funny feeling we are talking apples and oranges here. Are you talking about the black/silver alternate piping of the Allg SS/ SS VT /SS TV tabs?
My statements are solely about the officer grade all silver piping because thats what the initial tab looked like and thats what we are talking about right? I hope you do not mix things up here.

Best regards,
"Felix" - N. Hansson

Felix, Please get up to speed and get the 3 volume set by Mike Beaver. It sounds to me like you are now confused over the black and aluminum vs silver piped tabs, etc. etc. There has never been any confusion regarding this on my part. None at all! Also, it is easy to tell 2 strand vs. 3 strand. If you had the books you would understand better and you would be able to see that 2 strand piped tabs are not "very rare"! Get the books and we can talk further.
Peter

[Felix]

Felix, Please get up to speed and get the 3 volume set by Mike Beaver. It sounds to me like you are now confused over the black and aluminum vs silver piped tabs, etc. etc. There has never been any confusion regarding this on my part. None at all! Also, it is easy to tell 2 strand vs. 3 strand. If you had the books you would understand better and you would be able to see that 2 strand piped tabs are not "very rare"! Get the books and we can talk further.
Peter

Peter thanks, but I was worried you got it all mixed up. I have been sure from my side it was about all silver twisted piping all the time but not sure what you talked about. In a numbers game for statistitcs you have to take all the other 3 strands into consideration and that makes the 2 strands very rare. If you look into a duck pond and see 4 black ducks and 7 white ducks you cant base the reality on this. You have to search the other ponds as well.

So, Peter please go for some duck hunting.

Cheers on a friday

Felix

[PMan]

For Felix

Peter thanks, but I was worried you got it all mixed up. I have been sure from my side it was about all silver twisted piping all the time but not sure what you talked about. In a numbers game for statistitcs you have to take all the other 3 strands into consideration and that makes the 2 strands very rare. If you look into a duck pond and see 4 black ducks and 7 white ducks you cant base the reality on this. You have to search the other ponds as well.

So, Peter please go for some duck hunting.

Cheers on a friday

Felix

Yea, right.. hunting ducks, whatever ..Get the books..get educated. read, look, learn. Statistically, the number of examples in Beavers books makes the 2 strand tabs not "very rare". Why is this so hard for your to comprehend???

[Ludwig]

IMO not good! Thums down!

[Felix]

Yea, right.. hunting ducks, whatever ..Get the books..get educated. read, look, learn. Statistically, the number of examples in Beavers books makes the 2 strand tabs not "very rare". Why is this so hard for your to comprehend???

Oh well, Peter, this leads nowhere!
I didnt mean to insult you, just to stress what I meant with a more vivid example. Obviously not well taken...

I never cared much for these reference book cowboys because a few examples in a book does not make the statistics for the "ducks" true. The amount of info on this forum I would say beats reference books in most cases. Ive spend some time studying SS cloth but that doesnt make me an expert. Im sure you have done your home work as well but that doesnt make you an expert either. However you got to be better prepared if you want to convince about subjects I have studied. Im not going to ignore what I have seen and handled unless it holds water rather well. Your statements about the 2 strands is obviously not in total haromony with my experiences. I say they are very rare compared to 3 strands statistically.
Im open to learn and so should everybody be, including you.

Please be happy with your knowledge Peter. Thats fine on my behalf. A bit of duck hunting wont harm you... Sorry but I couldnt help talking about ducks agin

Lets agree we have different experiences and thats what makes this forum great.

Best regards,
"Felix" - N. Hansson

[Francesco]

I don't partecipe generally at this kind of thread because my BAD English does not give me the possibility to explain my point of view,anyway I will add jus ONE other post here.
In Beaver's books there are many tunics with piped tabs.In many of these isn't possible to count the stand but in many other yes.
I have counted 8 tabs with 2 stands!and 57 with 3 stands!!!
This confirm to ME that 2 twister stand are very rare!

Best,
Francesco

[PMan]

Very Rare

I don't partecipe generally at this kind of thread because my BAD English does not give me the possibility to explain my point of view,anyway I will add jus ONE other post here.
In Beaver's books there are many tunics with piped tabs.In many of these isn't possible to count the stand but in many other yes.
I have counted 8 tabs with 2 stands!and 57 with 3 stands!!!
This confirm to ME that 2 twister stand are very rare!

Best,
Francesco

Again, I do not agree. 8 is a full 15% of 57. 1-5% I would agree to be very rare. Not 15% of the total 57 tabs. Sorry!
Peter

[PMan]

Reference book cowboys

Oh well, Peter, this leads nowhere!
I didnt mean to insult you, just to stress what I meant with a more vivid example. Obviously not well taken...

I never cared much for these reference book cowboys because a few examples in a book does not make the statistics for the "ducks" true. The amount of info on this forum I would say beats reference books in most cases. Ive spend some time studying SS cloth but that doesnt make me an expert. Im sure you have done your home work as well but that doesnt make you an expert either. However you got to be better prepared if you want to convince about subjects I have studied. Im not going to ignore what I have seen and handled unless it holds water rather well. Your statements about the 2 strands is obviously not in total haromony with my experiences. I say they are very rare compared to 3 strands statistically.
Im open to learn and so should everybody be, including you.

Please be happy with your knowledge Peter. Thats fine on my behalf. A bit of duck hunting wont harm you... Sorry but I couldnt help talking about ducks agin

Lets agree we have different experiences and thats what makes this forum great.

Best regards,
"Felix" - N. Hansson

Felix,
I like my reference books. They have helped me many times. I try to buy one new reference book every time I go to a major meeting. I like to read. I like looking at and studying pictures of original items too.
Peter