W-SS Sturmscharfuhrer Tunic

[dukhunter]

W-SS Strumscharfuhrer Tunic

http://www.craiggottlieb.com/data/in...rtillery+Tunic

Anyone care to comment on the stretched diamond appearance of all the NCO braid, I always associate that (rightly or wrongly) with DDR ? Also no belt support ramps and the highest NCO rank in the artillery attachment ... would he have been 'Der Speiss' or is that at Regimental level ? Questionable eagle and pips ... I don't know whether these are questions or observations ... but they don't sit well with a tunic of that alleged value.

Ian.

Hi Ian,
You beat me to it! Those were going to be my comments, as well. Thank you.

George

[John Pic]

As far as pips go if they are glass they are not questionable.Der Spiess was an appointment not a rank.A higher NCO could have tunics tailored to suit taste as an officer would this appears to be private tailored, Ive seen high ranking Heer NCO withe the turn back cuffs as well. All those things aside look at the overall tunic insignia age comapared etc. and it seems highly improbable,too much so to risk alot of money.

[Ian Hulley]

As far as pips go if they are glass they are not questionable.Der Spiess was an appointment not a rank.A higher NCO could have tunics tailored to suit taste as an officer would this appears to be private tailored. All those things aside look at the overall tunic insignia age comapared etc. and it seems highly improbable,too much so to risk alot of money.

Thanks for the clarification on Der Spiess John ... we have Company & Regimental Sergeant-Majors in the UK, specific ranks.

The pip 'issue' with me is that these look like the ones that appear on all the Manions tunics, they appear (admittedly on digital photo) to be crudely cast. I can't get over the number of flags it waves at me, as you say inconsistant wear etc etc.

Ian.

[dukhunter]

W-SS Sturmscharffuhrer Tunic

Hi Ian,
I've been doing a search but haven't been able to come up with anything. I do know that there has been discussion here regarding the subject of W-SS NCO collar tresse. If I recall correctly, and I maybe wrong, but the use of tresse with the elongated diamonds was, indeed, a matter for concern. However, I believe that there were other factors that had to be taken into consideration as well before a final determination could be made. I'll keep looking to see if I can find the thread. Thank you

John Pic, thanks for your input.

Thanks,
George

[dukhunter]

W-SS Sturmscharfuhrer Tunic

I found it, so here is the link to the thread discussing collar tresses. Thanks.
George

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...+collar+tresse

[Mike C]

Thanks for the responses - I accept that I may be wrong with my earlier understanding that personnel serving within a regiment would have worn infantry waffenfarbe.

Was there an infantry SiH 150mm battery with the Deutschland? It certainly should not have had the Grille (which were assigned to pg regiments that had the armoured battalion in its orghanization) - although I have seen one DR OoB that states that it did as does the standard Gliederung Panzer-Division 44.

So...there is a possibility that this combination might work - although we have no answer regarding the single strip of tresse across the boards.

Mike

[Hasse.M]

http://www.craiggottlieb.com/data/in...rtillery+Tunic

Anyone care to comment on the stretched diamond appearance of all the NCO braid, I always associate that (rightly or wrongly) with DDR ?

Ian.

Ian good point made. My thoughts goes also to DDR. Anyone else?

To me the pips still looks very bad (cast).

But hey guys look at the condition of this tunic. Part by part...

[Lasse Kongo]

The whole piece screams "put together".

Not for my collection that is for sure!

Lasse

[John Pic]

I would agree

[Ian Hulley]

I found it, so here is the link to the thread discussing collar tresses. Thanks.
George

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...+collar+tresse

Good find George, a quick study side by side should re-affirm what I suspected.

I'd have to walk by this

Choice!

offering from Mr Gottlieb

Ian.

[dukhunter]

W-SS Sturmscharfuhrer Tunic

Thank you, Ian. Happy to be of help. Thanks.

George

[Lasse Kongo]

Still for sale for only 16 K. Amazing!

Lasse

[Glenn McInnes]

The whole piece screams "put together".


Lasse

Of course it is!!!




Glenn

[Fritz]

Every infantry regiment or Panzergrenadier Rgt. had a Infantrie Geschütz company organic to the regiment throughout the war. It was usually numbered as the 13th company. This company was staffed by both officers and enlisted personnel from the artillery specialty and they wore red Waffenfarbe. The same thing went for the men assigned to the regimental Pionier (engineer) company who would have worn black Waffenfarbe.

John

John,
I have checked my photo material and at least in the Frundsberg division in 1944 all men wore white Waffenfarbe in the "schwere Infanteriekompanie" which was equipped with Infanteriegeschützen, PAK and Mörsern. From my understanding each infantry/grenadier battalion had one of these units by that time. Had the infantry/grenadier regiments a extra Infanteriegeschütz unit? If so I think they would have worn white Waffenfarbe as well....?


Cheers

Fritz

[richardtedor]

ss sturmscharfuhrer tunic

Dear Mike,
Thank you for the response and observations. I'm certainly no expert, but have encountered enough evidence to suggest that regulations governing cosmetic elements of battle dress were occasionally ignored by members of the Waffen SS. Familiar period photographs of grenadiers decorating their dot pattern tunics with insignia and even badges demonstrate this. In a French book about the LAH I have, there is a photo of a sergeant who sewed a strip of tress on each lower sleeve of his camouflage smock(!) to denote his appointment as "Der Spiess." It looks really funny.
Marc Rikmenspoel, a rather thorough researcher, writes something of interest on page 216 of his "Soldiers of the Waffen SS." The caption to a picture of "Westland" regimental commander August Dieckmann reads that he "switched his Germania cuff-title for a Westland one. His headquarters staff saw this as proof that Dieckmann considered his new regiment worthy of respect." It seems that if regulations unconditionally required Dieckmann to change the insignia, his doing so would have made no such impression on the officers in his hq.
Anyway my thoughts are that the Sturmscharfuhrer tunic is a little too controversial to command such a high price, but the "Deutschland" insignia on artillery boards is I think a possibility. I guess it's pretty hard to photographically research because the pictures back then were mostly black and white.