A-SS Fetid Woolen?

[Robert H]

I take my thoughts back rgarding the tunic, maybe it is an original one. The cut is right thats for sure, but it should really get checked if it is ok or not. No price was stamed on a tunic, maybe it is a theater stamp mark who knows. The inliner I would question first from what I see here.

Regarding your question "black cloth balls" = bundled black cloth material into a ball shape.

[Doug Kenwright]

Robert..what do you make of the stamp? it looks like it says r over m than 7,65 what do you think?

I was thinking,if it did represent a price,would that be in line with what a tunic would have cost?

There was a tag on the inside of the pocket at one time.


I had to turn the cuffs inside out to see the stamp in white on black

maybe some owners should check to see if there is something there on other tunics

I ask this because,the quality of the liner and outer material is of a higher quality than you would see on an RZM produced tunic, possibly private purchase.

[Robert H]

As I said it just could be a Theater stamp for my view. You will find mostly original stamps in white like a VA stamps somewhere else but never in the cuffs thats bogus. Also I think it is strange when it would be a Theater stamp in this area, but this are just my 5 cents.

When you say a better quality then RZM examples it sounds you know the things very well. But trust me there are also high quality repros out with such a black colored inliner. I am not able to say it is good or bad judging it from pictures. Hands on for the little importend details is that what counts for me. The other questions is it a story you heard it came out from a theater or you where there when it came out form the theater? Storys that I cannot proof are in anyway worthless to hope for.
Good luck for your tunic, when it is a real one it is a very hard to find tunic thats for sure.

[Doug Kenwright]

Well, this tunic seems to be a good one...i have had many pm's in regards to this and some seem to feel it may be a private purchase officers tunic..we'll see..

I can claim no intimate knowledge other than it was one in a batch that came out of the Czech republic in '81( long before the current ones popped up...) and had been in a Canadian costume house , bought for "the diary of Anne Frank".

I took it to my neighbour who is a clothing store owner,and she told me that the liner is top quality suit grade silk,with a mixed ,poss. rayon bunting for the top of the pocket.

I asked her,if she had to make it today,would it be worth it?
She stated that with the material,workmanship and time involved,it would be the equivalent of making a complete mid/ high end suit wholesale

The outer skin for the tunic is a really high grade of wool,and if you look close all seams are matched,she states that master tailors would do this as a mark of the quality in their work.
sure enough,they all line up more than perfectly.It truly is well put together.A tunic of this quality in this period would have been expensive.She thinks that the stamp may be a price of the bolt of cloth used to make the tunic,and is where it is because it is a white ink/paint type stamp,and could not be brushed out of the material.Waste not want not...

She remarked on how small the person wearing this would have been in the waist,as it has that distinctive taper.

[Robert H]

In my SS Preisliste a Dienstrock (black) in Trikot was for sale for 56 RM, Tuch 47 RM, Gabardin 39.30 RM. The only thing what comes close to a price is one Meter of Gabardine cloth black for 7 RM. But then the meter price would not sit directly in both cuffs. Normaly I would expect in the arm another cloth material then that what I see here.

Maybe some other collector can give more input or experience regarding their experience with this stamps or tunic arm inliner by self.

So many PM's, just write your inputs that we all can learn something new here.

[Doug Kenwright]

here is the stamp inverted... possibly of help? this is on the inside of the turnback near the bottom,not on inside of sleeve

[judas]

that is a bolt cloth stamp that is found on rolls of cloth i have a few stamped in some of my tunics.

[Robert T.]

"Hitler's foreign divisions" by Chris Bishop, page 27.

".....In April 1941 Hitler gave Himmler permission to recruit up to 2500 Flemings and Dutch nationals for a new volunteer regiment , SS-Nordwest.
By 25 May, some 920 Dutchmen had arrived in Hamburg-Langerhorn, and they were joined by a further 560 Dutch , Flemish and Danish volunteers over the next three months..."
___________
Robert

[DougO]

Doug (Kurskss),

You asked for more opinions, so I'll provide mine. I am not an expert on these tunics, but I have handled a few and I own a few as well.

There are some aspects of the cut of the tunic that I like, but the lapels are odd vs. most of the others that I have seen. That being said, one does see different lapels on tailor made tunics, but these are not like any I have personally seen.

The lining of the sleeve is not what I would expect. Typically, they have a white stripped silk. But, that alone would not make the tunic a fake IMHO.

The stampings look more like theater markings than cloth 'bolt' stampings, but there were many makers of cloth and I don't think anyone knows what all of their markings looked like. I do like the external material. But as Robert says, there is plenty of that around to make post-war tunics out of.

The fact that the tunic formerly had belt ramps and does not appear to have a slot and/or hanger for a dagger would argue for it being an enlisted tunic, not an officer.

The insignia looks very bad to me. For comparison, I have attached a picture of an original Nordwest cufftitle that is on an original tunic that is in my collection.

Yours could be an original tunic that was without insignia until the theater company added some made up insignia that would suffice for a production.

Just my thoughts, Doug

[Doug Kenwright]

Thanks Doug..i think we knew from the get go that the insignia (s) were bad..at least no one has said they are repro,and i have never seen that cufftitle like that in repro.I am of the opinion that perhaps they were made by the theatre company, perhaps there are more out there...

It is interesting in that it would be in keeping with the large eagles made up by Hollywood for movies!

It seems the futher you get from RZM tunics ,the greater the variance in the size of the lapels.Since this tunic appears to be a private purchase,i suppose that there was latitude given in the size as long as they kept generally to the pattern.

It is interesting that you note that the tunic has officer quality,yet has belt ramps.It makes you wonder if at anytime that officers(espc. junior ones) would be required to carry field equipment on parade.The tunic has internal cross strap support padding in the shoulder as well.Very interesting.

I've had numerous conversations with members,and we have narrowed the stamping to either size of bolt stamp,or price of bolt.I don't think that it is a theatre marking,but it would help
if we could see the first part of the stamp a little clearer

[DougO]

Just to be clear, I never said that this tunic has 'officer quality'.

I'm also not sure if it is an original tunic or not. I would need a hands-on with this one to even have a good idea.

But, from what I see, if original, it would be an EM tunic - NOT officers IMHO.

Doug

[Doug Kenwright]

,..from the road

Doug
Yes,thank you for your clarification.I should state that i do collect army , navy and luftwaffe tunics and i feel that the silk lining is officer quality,as well as the Trikot outer skin,which again is of officer quality and not a lower grade of wool as one would see on an EM tunic.The quality is excellent, and of officer grade but the cut is in an EM style. The lining (arms and chest) are hand sewn in ,and while black, closer inspection shows the arm lining to be of a lower grade of silk, possibly rayon or a similiar type of material. A hands on would be nice,but so far,all i have received are offers to buy it from me..and many at that..I think some members have an idea of what they are looking at..There is more...

In some rather exciting news,i have found deep inside one of the breast pockets the remains of perhaps a manufacturers stamp (of the cloth?) as well as a partial stamp of the RZM!

These were at different places on the material,but ended up adjacent to each other, seperated by the box pleat construction on the inside..it is hard to get a pic but i will put my drawing skills to work to give you an idea of what it looks like (as well as pics hopefully.

... when you have a lot of time on the road to kill.. the esoteric becomes the norm..

[Doug Kenwright]

o.k.. this is a graphic of the immediate back of the left breast pocket(it is a bit lower than shown in real life)..pics to follow.

[Doug Kenwright]

maker stamp?

[Doug Kenwright]

2 style of letters..could the first letter actually be a "k" for the word trikot? tricot in German...