We are losing Dr. Abenheim and Bob Coleman - please speak up!

[bnz. 42]

No surrender. No matter what .

[arastx]

Hello Everyone,

I've only been collecting a little over a year now and have been a member of this and other militaria forums for a few months but I can say that this forum and it's members are a great asset to the collecting community. I dont know Dr. Abenheim or Mr. Coleman personally, but I know that they were very helpfull and knowledgble from past threads. It is a loss to this site and hobby when we lose fellow collectors who could help out and contribute so much. I hope that both gentlemen reconsider their decision. I ask not only as a new collector, but as a new collector who understands and respects those who know more than I.

Regards,
AA

[LeeG]

I wholeheartedly agree that the original topic of authenticity was lost in both threads, but the question remains, was the cap legit? All we are left with now is allegations and conjecture, and no resolution to the primary topic of both threads...

Don

Hear hear!

[sturmbannfuhrer]

I believe the issue was over a WSS General's visor. There was supposed to be a meeting of the minds/experten and the result was to have been as close to a resolution as possible on the item's authenticity. Has that been determined yet? The thread(s) was/were removed last week.

Don

I like most of the others here, support Donald and Bob. They are badly missed and hopefully when the pretenders to their thrones realise they just don't have it, the real Kings will return.

As far as the thread being removed is concerned, it should have been left as a legacy to arrogance, to the type of breed who want to throw their jaded opinions about, bully and spout off. The thread was removed to save their embarrassement. Bring it back so they can be seen as what they are.

And I for one, don't give a monkees what those pretenders think about my view here.

[ReichsHeini]

Sorry to see knowledgable folks leave, but that is their choice.
I don't remember seeing anyone treat them badly in that highly read thread, or say anything personal at all. One particular person expressed a negative opinion on that visor and backed it up with photgraphic evidence. He is also quite knowledgable in this field. There were no insults, or name calling or anything. There were many questions leveled about the cap being sold by a dealer as an expensive rare piece, but obviously those will all go unanswered.
So in the end we know nothing about the cap, and isn't that all we really wanted to know.

[DonC]

Hubris and all that aside, I would certainly like to know if the cap is legit. The vast majority of collectors do not visit these forums to witness or partake in pissing contests, but to learn.

Don

[kennethc]

I don't see any reason for anyone to quit. After all, this is just an hobby for everyone here. There isn't a life or death situation or a fortune 500 company to save. With the free speech and free knowledge exchange in this hobby, it's very natural to receive uncountable low class "comments" and low balls from others... I suggest just ignore them and move on....

[johannes post]

but why are mister coleman and dr.Abenheim leaving ?
couldn't it be that they where wrong on this visor !
and that they couldn't accept there mistake ?
dave kane comes with a good replay and mr.coleman and dr.abenheim do not respond and leaving without any further discusion ?

my 2 cent's


regards johan

[Antiquefrog]

As starter of this thread, I thank all contributors. The subtle wandering of the discussion, and subsequent deterioration into the flimsy issue of the original cap, only reinforces my sense of why these two scholars have left us for good. Gentlemen have standards, and even the suggestion of collusion in the sale of a suspect item demands evidence, sadly lacking in this case, of complicity, forehand knowledge, and false evidence. In the end, perhaps deservedly, the broad perspective of the moderators has produced a most untoward result, and we will all suffer - this forum, the survivor forum, will never be the same without these two lerned men. Speaking for myself only, I am embarrassed.

[DonC]

Hi Bruce -

I certainly respect your opinion. The issue of the cap's authenticity or not is at the very core of the entire discussion, IMO, for if it was not for the cap itself, none of this would have transpired... In all honesty, in following these three related threads, I have been amazed how many people seem willing to give the cap that started this a free pass and concentrate instead on discusions of personalities, varying degrees of "expert" knowledge, etc. Everything but the cap.

Once again, in my opinion, one should not just take one's ball and go home. I have seen many people, myself included, be disabused of erroneous notions on this forum, and yes, some have left, but most learn and continue to contribute. I have posted several stinkers and have been called on it - honest mistake, I learn and move on, better for the experience. I even caught hell once from a member for a repro helmet in the Bazaar that I was selling as such. The other individual and I talked it over, we both apologized and we moved on. I think part of what made this discusion so polarizing was not necessarily the individuals involved, but the relative scale, monetarily speaking, of the item in question. When you are discusing an item that is essentially worth a new car, the stakes are higher than when one is questioning the authenticity of a humble EKII or government issue artilery visor. In a perfect world, reaction should be the same, I guess.

I guess what I am trying to say, in an inarticulate way, is that discussion and learned viewpoints are what make these forums so valuable, and that should not be stifled in fear of wounding someone's pride.

And please, if the authenticity of the cap is determined one way or the other, can it be posted somewhere on the forum so that this matter can be put to rest?

Don

[Bob Coleman]

It is very interesting what people choose to read or not read in these threads. For what it is worth, my resignation had nothing to do with my position on the hat. My reasons are my reasons and not the business of anyone be it either fact or as it has been in this case, by some, conjecture.

[John Pic]

Im in the middle on this subject, I felt the tone of the questioning by Dave was not handled correctly nor the posting of an item from a website that was not being considered for purchase by the individual but rather was being used as a means to educate without the thought of contacting those involved first.Some people are very private and others are not,simple respect.

However I read in another thread that this is a new breed of collector and the hobby has changed and that respecting others opinions wether they are new or old school is a necessary ingrediant for a successful forum.Don is correct that people should not run away everytime the deck gets hot. Ive had my feelings hurt numerous times,my ego stabbed,my inteligence insulted,patronized beyond recognition,called names,and returned the favors a few times to people I normally respected but they got on my nerves on occaision and I needed them to know it.No one is a doormat to wipe your feet on because you have a thousand years in collecting and your items are published or you own Himmlers emroidered underwear.Ive caught many old timers making bad calls at shows on pieces and learned by watching that I have to be the final word on what I buy.Ive seen the expert of experts fail a few appraisals on items I knew were directly from that war. I still respect them but never follow blind.
I think this forum thing could get better if people learn to understand the dynamics of reading a persons post and being polite,also if people stop running and hiding and or getting angry at other opinions stubbornly unbent.
But I think these forums were designed more to serve the old culture and it has backfired and taken a direction unexpected.

[Johann Anton]

My best wishes to both Bob and Don, with future collecting endevors...

[DonC]

Thank you, John - much better put than I could hope to!

Don

[Michael Fay]

Prof Abenheim has impressed me many times in his threads. He answered my PM on SS ideology and even sent me samples of his essays. I was a complete stranger to him, and he treated me very well with his time and erudite knowlege. I would read anything he deigns to write with interest.----M.F.