Complete Allegemeine SS officers uniform

[Wizard]

Hello cadet,
The fact that you want to seek out that "big ticket" item for fraction of the cost is scary. Do you know how many people with more knowledge, experience, and contacts than you, do this for a living!!??? What makes you think you can outbeat them?

If daggers are "no brainers," wouldn't it make more sense for you to make money by reselling "no brainers" than investing in items you clearly don't have a clue?

Just a thought.

[bwanek1]

Noone can tell me that 2,000 downpayment dropped on something that looks pretty good to take pictures and post here in attempts to see a much better value is a wrong move.

I could try, but what would be the point? We all see this as foolish based upon many years of life experience, but, apparently, until you suffer a substantial financial loss, you will not listen to the lessons we learned. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others, a fool insists upon repeating them himself. Go ahead, relearn those lessons the hard way if you must, but don't say we didn't try to warn you.

[Bob Hritz]

We can now just sit back and have our combined centuries of working to gain knowledge available to someone who can't bother to learn. I guess it is our job, for the $25 dues, to help make profits for someone who has no care for what we collect, other than a fast buck.

I'll be at the beck and call of fast buck artists.....yeah right!

Bob Hritz

ps. Mint WWII German firearms: Laughing myself silly as these have been played with by people who are very talented and have made fortunes restoring firearms for the novice collectors.

pps: I'll donate a buck if 24 other's will to send a refund for dues.

[John Pic]

Ive been thinking similar thoughts lately Bob, I should have people send me thier tunics for a real hands on, rather than offering a free opinion in the forums, charge a $50 consulting fee plus the postage both ways ...hmmm...Maybe Ive been too nice theres a lot of people who have reaped benefits from opinions on these forums.

[chuck locke]

That's why a number of real good guys don't post or come to this forum anymore. Anyone want to guess how many hours of research Rick "research" put into indentifying ribbon bars just so he could see them the next day on e-stand. He was a great resource for this forum but now posts in another. His library is also sorely missed as is his humor.
Chuck

[Donald Abenheim]

zu beachten!

Ive been thinking similar thoughts lately Bob, I should have people send me thier tunics for a real hands on, rather than offering a free opinion in the forums, charge a $50 consulting fee plus the postage both ways ...hmmm...Maybe Ive been too nice theres a lot of people who have reaped benefits from opinions on these forums.

There is a problem, though. If they pay you, dear John, then you are liable if something goes wrong. I checked this out with a close friend who is a lawyer and wise in the ways of antiquities. I answer emails everyday from people I have never met, and they solicit my views of various things. You'd be surprised who all writes to me, actually. I do it without stint, and I am sure I have sometimes aided the wrong side or surely I have helped those who are rank in their ingratitude, but I press on. In fact, often times certain of our fellows are shockingly devoid of thanks when it comes to recognizing the sacrifice and suffering that goes into all of this, really. Solving the riddles of the past requires patience, to be sure. And there are many montebanks and Hochstaplers with all of it, of course.

[John Pic]

You are correct Donald but maybe if I but a disclaimer in small print and offer no written only verbal appraisals??? Some people have made alot of money using others to guage and play the market.

[Bob Coleman]

Sad, but the truth is that the internet gurus of today have a greater following among the newbies than the older , experienced collectors who have handled more original material tha the newbies could ever comprehend. I have even heard statements such as "the old guys stopped learning a long time ago." I will put my losses up against any of the new guys when it comes to the education I have experienced with buying fraudulent material. I will guarantee that I have learned from every painful experience. Many of the older leading collectors can understand as they have experienced similar experiences. The newbies today say "buy the item, not the story." However guys, we old timers have a few stories that go with an item that should be listened to and recorded. Today, too many strive for instant knowledge without effort. I paid my dues now tell me everything you have learned over the past fifty years in ten minutes. Sorry, it does not work that way and most of us don't want to help with that type of attitude.
Bob

[John Pic]

One of the most valuable lessons I learned from the internet...that everything in the former Book gurus books wasnt true. That some big names in the game were very talented scam artists as well. That the forums were both used by new collectors as well as old timers to snake the best of what was out there by patting the backs of those who had the nicest toys and insulting those who wouldnt bow to cronyism. It never changes and never will. The biggest lesson is keeping your patience and your sanity in dealing with all the types of clowns and self absorbed introverts who play this game. Ive had some fun watching it in the past but at this point in the game its like seeking solice in an insane asylum...just go to a show here in the US all you see walking around is fat ugly men with bermuda shorts and black socks who have to suck on an inhaler every 5 seconds or stab an insulin needle into thier gut, but can afford to dump $20000 at the drop of a hat..especially an SS hat either that or its a skinny guy with glasses and red and green plaid pants wearing an einheitsfeldmutze and carrying an Army issue shoulder bag that he wouldnt have been qualified to carry in real life. Then of coarse is joe normal who just wants to enjoy the hobby but ever since he started he has to wade through all this just to get the truth.
The truth...everyone thinks they know it but few really study anything to get it...I learned this by talking to some of the guys who have collected for over 30-40 years..yet they still didnt know what they were looking at half the time and at best were making educated guesses based on whatever they have seen in thier years not on what they have studied in photos or documents.Keep leafing through those Beaver books the more you look the more you will find that is not right with many of those tunics but based on the fact that they came from "old collections and old collectors, they are viewed as the creme de la creme. God rest Mikes enlightened soul but he never posted a single question as to why certain tunics and coats belonging to a certain dealer obviously didnt match the period photos of the subjects wearing them same tunics different insignias etc. etc. To you the young collector the truth doesnt lie here or in some gurus opinion it lies in your own ability to do the math and solve the mystery of real vs.fake and as Klaushund says be willing to make mistake after mistake. I made a couple I bought some nice tunics from a dealer no one likes but I made the mistake of listening to the "more experienced" old collectors among us who were quik to throw doubt with opinions on aging. I sold them thinking well they will always get a negative review so why keep them.They now reside in old collections of people who dont post on these forums.Not only that but some are valued at double what I paid.So much for thinking the experienced among us know anything about real aging and or real anything. Sorry for the rant but this has been boiling in me for awhile and I think a disclaimer should be posted before every forum that many here even those with mega collections may not really know a damned thing includng how to dress for success at local shows. Goodnight

[Donald Abenheim]

Donnerwetter

What with your lurid description of sweaty, dark socks and stabbing insulin needles, I feel as if I am there, in fact! ...Menschlich, allzu menschlich... Maybe those of us who have concerned ourselves with the III. Reich for far too long have imbibed too much of this Herrenmensch propaganda as regards human behavior. The Prussian virtues play essentially no role here. More realistic is to see all of this as human, invested of most of the seven deadly sins, and highly problematic. I am grateful for the internet in that I have learned a very great deal and also become associated with some fine people, while I have also been screwed royally, as well, including, in fact, by some published author (s), who are, as JPic points out, scumbags. To be sure, however, this process of being robbed and whatnot is a familiar one to me, having begun in my biography in the mid-1960s. It is very easy to become very angry about all of this, but the material remains too interesting to give up and none of us should surrender our principles too willingly. Through the internet, though, I have found far more black fetid woolens (...even authentic ones..) than I ever dreamed remotely possible, and, I have never seen the kinds of mise en scene of human frailties in militaria shows described by my colleague in Oregon, either. Rather, Sayle F tells me all about it in great detail. I am a voyeur. Viel Sammlerglueck.

[Peter R.]

I hope this concept of blatantly using fellow forum member's time and expertise as a free appraisal service to help in making a quick buck isn't going to ruin the spirit of the place.

I wouldn't blame anybody here for ignoring such demanding and arrogant sounding requests for expertise. If you're going to be a part-time wheeler and dealer and rely on others to successfully manage that, then I imagine it'd make sense to cultivate some social skills that would grease the wheels, at the very least.

[drew Allman]

problem?

What is the problem here? I avidly seek to preserve the history and the hobby. However, my goal is not to have specific SS items because they are so expensive. 2000 downpayment with a notorized letter I feel I can trust. I cannot stand dealers and will never be one. Iam all too aware that people do this sort of thing for a living and they have years of contacts. However, small towns in the middle of nowhere in GA, SC, NC, and VA with populations of under 1k have not always been reached. I dont think I can outbeat dealers who do this for a living but a far amount have a horrible bedside manner and drive people away that with a little prying would otherwise sell something. The neighbor next door, the local classified I have found the best things in. Money means more in the rural areas. Therefore, I still stand a chance of happening upon items. I recognize what is high dollar and if I stumble upon it then yes I will try to get it for cheap and trade/sell for what I really want to collect and have. An SS collection is not what Iam looking for, why is this cause for offense? Its not affordable to develop a large collection of it now, so I will not pursue it. I have some books I have read and it takes time to assimilate the extense of the material. Somehow my acquisition of a some reference books means I should have it memorized within a month or two of buying it. And honestly, using members free expertise and knowledge for an appraisal? Im sorry I do not see this as a collecting faux pax. God forbid I know what something is worth ball park figure. Whats wrong with that? It happens all the time on here. One can still learn from that. Money is the means to an excellent collection. Yes, the profit margins are much larger on SS than the firearms I seek to collect. If I can pay fractions of its value and trade/sell for firearms or varied other uniforms how this offends people I do not know. On that note, books do not reveal everything. Many times on past forums I have read people will not say what is wrong with something in fears of a faker learning from his mistake. Thats absurd, if hes crooked enough he will find out anyways. Me asking for specific reasons at why something is wrong is more than fair. How will I learn and more importantly with a comment of "its fake", though there may be 20-50 years of experience on me, I shouldnt have to take one at his opinion without some concrete reasons. This is hardly an arrogant stance, it is taking me as a fool that I should be in awe of one's opinion without knowing why or how the conclusion was reached, just to know that it is sacred because of years of experience and Iam out of line to question it. I have witnessed two specific posts where people have commented on an SS item being wrong and it turns out to be right, then everyone falls in line again of it being right. In regards to firearms, I have yet to see a convincing fake german firearm. They are always missing something, reblueing is easy to tell, restamping numbers are relatively simple to point out as well. A firearm can be taken apart and certain things cannot be faked unlike uniforms. I would like to actually see what is considered a good altered german firearm.

[bwanek1]

What is the problem here? ...

Read Peter's post (#41) immediately above.

You are arguing with (and in some cases insulting) the very same people from whom you are asking for help.

[NTZ]

It looks like out poster didn’t like the answer he got here. After being told on the 12th that there is no way in hell he posted this on the 13th.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtop...=896908#896908

[John Pic]

I left a few out..dont want them to feel lonely. How about the perpetual uptight buyer whose hands shake and chain smokes like a smudge pot , the nervous over dramatic flamer, the smelly guy who hasnt combed his hair in six months or taken a shower, the smart aleck kid who has to recite everything he knows as hes buying it, the guys who secretly in thier heads dont think Hitler was all that bad but they never admit it here even though its painfully obvious. My wife had a field day watching people at a Militaria show and trying to figure out where the heck they came from..Did I leave out dealers oh my theres the self important who have no time for anyone who hasnt prearranged a brief session, the old guy with 30 million repros and even with the internet today still honestly thinks he has real stuff BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN AT IT FOR YEARS AND "THESE YOUNG NEW COLLECTORS DONT KNOW ANYTHING". The guy who brings a $50,000 tunic that he paid $3000 for 12 years ago but decided to sell it now if the one person who can afford it happens to be among those described previously.The Chuckys the Guys who have to tell a potential customer why everything he looks at costs so much and why its the rarest one at the show even when the possible buyer doesnt ask.Loads of fun and then you learn these are the guys your talking to in these forums....so dont take it to seriously.