And How About This Dream.......m43 Ss Pz Cap At E-stand

[John Huff]

"When all is said and done, more will be said than done..."

The bottom line is, the only person who needs to be satisfied that an item is genuine is the person in possession of it. Early in my collecting days I "dumped" as repro an SS 44 pea pattern HBT tunic because some dude I had just shown it to said he thought it probably was bad. Since then, I have learned it was most likely genuine, mint, and unissued and the guy didn't even collect SS and had no experience with it.
I seek, value, and consider the opinions of our most senior, experienced collectors on the forum. What info they want to withhold is strictly up to them. I sometimes disagree with their and majority opinion. In the end, it is up to me what I am happy with.

[90th Light]

Hello Paul, nice cap. This is like the arrival of the cavalry in one of those old western movies.
Could you please show us a picture of the inside of the cap.
It will be interesting to see how the "old-guard" rate this one. They have got me wondering

Hello John Pic, you make some very good points. I do not rate the aged appearance of cloth as a major factor. If you can store cloth out of light, moisture, dust / dirt and bugs it will not age. Other possible aging could come from heat and chemicals but it depends on what the cloth is made out of.

I can see why collectors question this, in that after 60 or 70 years it would seem unusual that a cap would not have been exposed to these potential sources of ageing but it all depends where, how and when it has been stored. If stored carefully it will look brand new. Cloth although possibly organic is not like milk which goes off with time. Fakers these days also know how to age cloth.

Mint and unissued items will look new, Chris

[B. N. Singer]

[QUOTE=Paul l k] .. if i am to believe what i have read throughout this long debate it would appear that i have been blissfully living in some sort of happy ignorance ever since i added this cap to my collection ..

Yes, well, I have fallen victim of that, as I am sure all collectors who have been doing this for any number of years have also. The "trick" is to realize it and "correct" the mistake.

B. N. Singer

[John Pic]

Dont bother to ask any further about the latest cap posted as you can read judgement was already passed. It doesnt matter what evidence thier is to back it up that we havent learned yet. If someone says its bad its bad even if it isnt. What a joke

[jacquesf]

Now that every one is involved and exited, what about this for a nice and potentially controvercial debate . jacques http://www.therupturedduck.com/WebPa...forms/u092.htm .

[Glenn McInnes]

Now that every one is involved and exited, what about this for a nice and potentially controvercial debate . jacques http://www.therupturedduck.com/WebPa...forms/u092.htm .

That M43 is a text book original.


Glenn

[John Huff]

Actually, the font used on the "H43" as well as the RB would receive criticizm from somebody

[billbert]

I likes it..Billbert

[Bob Hritz]

The maker marks on Bill Shea's panzer M-43 cap are correct. I attach a photo of a heer M-43 that is about worn away from use.

Bob Hritz

[90th Light]

Talking about what is for sale on Bill Shea's site, have you seen the two Dachau SS Panzer M43 Caps with pirate trap he has for sale and the prices. I suppose that is inflation caused by the rising price of oil ???

If you compare those two Dachau SS M43's with the one which started this thread and Paul.l.k's one. What are the differences ???
Just the trap and the fact that the Dachau ones do not have cloth on the under-side of the bill.

Put them side by side and you will see what I mean. Same cloth, same lining same thread, same composite buttons ???

May-be the SS M43 which start this thread was found at the same time and even possibly in the same place.

I just can not for the life of me see why the Dachau's are now suddenly so right and the one which started the thread not to mention Paul's one so wrong ?

Would appreciate if Bob Hritz would share his thoughts on this, Chris

[Gary Wood]

If you compare those two Dachau SS M43's with the one which started this thread and Paul.l.k's one. What are the differences ???
Just the trap and the fact that the Dachau ones do not have cloth on the under-side of the bill.

Put them side by side and you will see what I mean. Same cloth, same lining same thread, same composite buttons ???

Chris,
Actually those black Dachau m43 caps have other unique traits and are not constructed in the same way as the cap that started this thread.
cheers
Gary

[Bob Hritz]

Gary is absolutely correct. The Dachau made M-43 caps are completely different in construction from other M-43 caps.

Go back and read my epistle, on this thread, and I have made mention of the Dachau made M-43 caps.

As for the cap in question, I don't know and would rely on those whose expertise I value. Of course, they already posted.

What a person wants to share is up to them. I just appreciate that anyone takes the time to help when a fellow collector asks a serious question.

I know the later generations of collectors eschew 'stories', but sometimes it is good to know the 'pedigree' of where something has been for the past 6 decades. Having tracked vets for over 40 years, the pedegree is just the 'vet story'. Those who know me are aware of the vast amount of material I have found. I value a line of ownership just as much as the 'vet story'.

Material from well known collections has historically brought premium prices because these were the items to which other items were compared. This is fairly safe, but no one is infallible and each item must be judged on it's own merits. The history of the piece is just for that comfort level of maintaining a lineage of ownership. I wish I had kept better fecords of what I own and the exact dates and places in which they were obtained.

Of course, just because something is an accepted original today will it remain so. I posted a 75 tsnk assault on the Heer Badges forum, in 2004 and it was lauded as fantastic. Last week, it is fake! Just the collector mentality which has damaged a piece that was original for 60 years, just not last week. Of course, I am keeping the badge because I know it is original. Isn't that all that really matters?

Bob Hritz

[B. N. Singer]

[QUOTE=Bob Hritz]Gary is absolutely correct.

Correct Gary and Bob,

And unless I am grossly mistaken, they too have been well copied. As for the Heer Pz M43 hat, well I am afraid to even comment.

B. N. Singer

[djpool]

Not to get way off track but if Sheas M43 is fake I give up.I've examined Bob Hritzs field grey M43 made by the same maker and its also a "one looker".

Maybe all German Militaria was actually destroyed during the war. After the war a "Reproduction Industry" sprung up enlisting veterans and the former German Industry that made the stuff. Using doctored photos and seeding veterans with their evil wares they have been screwing us for years! {I write this in jest. I don't want anyone to think i'm serious.)

WR Jim

[Donald Abenheim]

sicher vernuenftig!

Not to get way off track but if Sheas M43 is fake I give up.I've examined Bob Hritzs field grey M43 made by the same maker and its also a "one looker".

Maybe all German Militaria was actually destroyed during the war. After the war a "Reproduction Industry" sprung up enlisting veterans and the former German Industry that made the stuff. Using doctored photos and seeding veterans with their evil wares they have been screwing us for years!

WR Jim

A novel idea and one which garners a lot of support among the cartel of anxiety and the echelons of the parnoid style who operate here. What with the manner in which Marilyn Monroe shot down Manfred von Richtofen while in a menage-a-trois with the Kennedy brothers in Area Fifty One, usw. such a contingency is highly probable. By the way, I draw attention to the Holters army cavalry cap, as well as a very nice Lubstein Pz beret also on the Shea site. These are attractive caps, to be sure. Are any other Holters caps for sale presently? Such dreary things cannot compete with conspiracy theories, I know, but I am interested in Holters pieces. I also celebrate the Seyss-Inquart uniform posted recently from the other prestige Berlin Schneidermeister, Fa. Stechbarth. It is such an impressive Montur.