SS Totenkopfverbande Portrait - KL Guard?

[Tim K.]

Hi folks,

I just aquired two SS portrait photos, and I'm thinking that they may depict a KL guard. What do you think? Unfortunately, the Totenkopf tab is visible only in the second portrait, and not very clearly at that.

Based on the decorations, and the age of the man, certainly a WWI vet.

Tim

[Tim K.]

Piping looks like it could be brown...

[Tim K.]

TK tab is barely visible...(it can be seen a little better in the second portrait)

[Tim K.]

Second portrait...

[Tim K.]

Looks like a vertical TK tab, with a numeral or letter beneath...

[Tim K.]

Reverse of both...

[Tim K.]

Embossed studio stamp on first photo...

[Bobwirtz]

Looks like the type that would be at a KZ... an older WWI veteran. All of the young, able-bodied men serving at the KZs were either pulled into the Totenkopf Division as the initial cadre or later pulled as replacements by Eicke until Himmler stopped this practice. All that was left was the old guys like this one.

Nice photos. Too bad though he wasn't sitting the other direction so you could clearly see the Totenkopf collar tab.

Bob

[Donald Abenheim]

sehr interessant

Older members of the Allgemeine SS were mobilized to fill the gap by the reorganization of the Totenkopfstandarten to constitute a manouver, fighting force. Surely this man is one of these reinforcements drawn from the regular SS into the SSTV. (note the date of his service, 1939-1942) It is an interesting and suggestive image, to be sure. Vol. IV of the Mollo book has group portraits of similar men. The endurance of the collar patch with the Hunderschaft numeral in this era is also interesting. The memo of 1938 (under AH's signature...) that authorized the increase in the end strength of the SSVT and SSTV ushered in a rapid growth of the SSTV in the period 1938-1939 as a prelude to war. The marshalling of the Allgemeine SS to fill the gaps is well described in Wegner and other works of research merit. If the images are those of 1941 or 1942, then it is plain that this man wears white piping on his cap vs. the brown piping on the shoulder board.

[Christian L]

interesting picture - and it should be noted that he is wearing the "cut-out" version of the wounded badge. also from the style of the ribbonbar it would be most likly a guy from southern germany (can't make the ribbons out clear enough to say more)
christian

[Tim K.]

Thanks for the comments, guys.

I did a quick review of Mollo Vol IV before I started the thread, and based on the regs and dates that were quoted, I though it was interesting to see that type of enumerated TK tab, especially on a later photo. Donald, I always enjoy the precision of your commentaries! Thanks for adding!

I agree with Bob...if only the guy only could have turned a little more to his left!

Christian, thanks for the observation regarding the wound badge...I 'looked right at it" and didn't notice.

Here's a closer scan of the ribbon-bar.

[Donald Abenheim]

Thanks for the comments, guys.

I did a quick review of Mollo Vol IV before I started the thread, and based on the regs and dates that were quoted, I though it was interesting to see that type of enumerated TK tab, especially on a later photo. Donald, I always enjoy the precision of your commentaries! Thanks for adding!

I agree with Bob...if only the guy only could have turned a little more to his left!

Christian, thanks for the observation regarding the wound badge...I 'looked right at it" and didn't notice.

Here's a closer scan of the ribbon-bar.

Thanks for the images and your kind words. Can someone quote me a bomb-proof source for the dates of the Totenkopf badges with the Hunderschaft #'s? That is, from about 1936 until about 1939 or so, but maybe later when I look at these images. I had the sense that they were on their way out by the start of the war, if for no other reason than security. Important on this man's post card are his presumed dates of service. I know there is a hard core of number SSTV Hundertschaft collar patch and cuff titles collectors, some with extraordinary items in their collections. But Mollo is somewhat confusing on this account. Where is the regulation itself, the SS Befehlsblatt, or the SSTV price list? The Allgemeine SS price list refers to separate ones for the SSTV and SSVT. Fragen auf Fragen....

[Ian Hulley]

He IS definately from a KL staff, I recall seeing him among others on a thread on another forum. Given some time I'll find it and tell you who he is/was.

Note the white piped cap and (presumably) brown piped straps ..... tsk,and with all those coloured visors out there

Cheers,Ian.

[karlo]

interesting picture - and it should be noted that he is wearing the "cut-out" version of the wounded badge. also from the style of the ribbonbar it would be most likly a guy from southern germany (can't make the ribbons out clear enough to say more)
christian

the cut out is a personal choice is it not.?...u get it done yerself?

[Ian Hulley]

I believe they were a manufacturing style/variant and stamped that way.

Ian.