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**Jarrid Marsh** · 09-21-2005, 08:20 AM

Originally posted by Robin Lumsden

Here is the mark on the bottom of that dog. It is the mark of the Sauermann firm, a professional porcelain manufacturer which bought some of the Allach animal moulds at the end of the war. They marked their pieces 'Sauermann' and did not attempt to deceive anyone. It was just a commercial venture so far as they were concerned - ready made moulds at a cheap price.

All I was saying is that some Allach moulds did survive the war to be used again.

If it happened with the animals, it could happen with the other figures.

Mr. Lumsden,

What documents or evidence do you have to support this claim of sale to sauermann?

J

**GHP** · 09-21-2005, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by Robin Lumsden

Here's a fake Julleuchter. These were made in the hundreds during the 1970s and openly sold in the Waffen-SS vets' magazine 'Der Freiwillige'.

Is there currently a source for a close-copy of the Julleuchter? I've seen some sold on "Goth" or "Witch/Wicca" sites, but these newer products are too glossy. The image you posted is just what I'm looking for.

Thanks,
Guy Power

**Robin Lumsden** · 09-21-2005, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by Jarrid Marsh

Mr. Lumsden,

What documents or evidence do you have to support this claim of sale to sauermann?

J

Jarrid.

I would have thought that the existence of the dog, with the Sauermann mark, would be evidence enough.

However, the sale is documented in a book on German Porcelain Makers which I found and scanned through whilst passing some time in the book section of the famous KaDeWe store in Berlin last year. It was an expensive book, so I did not buy it. The 'Allach' section of the book, which was only a couple of paragraphs, mentioned the use of Allach moulds after the war by other porcelain makers.

**Robin Lumsden** · 09-21-2005, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by GHP

Is there currently a source for a close-copy of the Julleuchter? I've seen some sold on "Goth" or "Witch/Wicca" sites, but these newer products are too glossy. The image you posted is just what I'm looking for.

Thanks,
Guy Power

Guy.
You could try:

www.europaltd.com

**Jarrid Marsh** · 09-21-2005, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by Robin Lumsden

Jarrid.

I would have thought that the existence of the dog, with the Sauermann mark, would be evidence enough.

However, the sale is documented in a book on German Porcelain Makers which I found and scanned through whilst passing some time in the book section of the famous KaDeWe store in Berlin last year. It was an expensive book, so I did not buy it. The 'Allach' section of the book, which was only a couple of paragraphs, mentioned the use of Allach moulds after the war by other porcelain makers.

Robin,

Under normal circumstances it might have been, however the identical dog as well as many other piece's produced by Allach were made prior to Allach, during Allach, and after Allach, and by multiple manufacturer's, so who got the molds? and how can one be sure if they were Allach molds.

Karner piece's alone account for a large amount of them and the designs go back into the 1920's on most of them, these include the fox in both versions, the horse pieces, the daschund's, that daschels etc. etc.

A lot of them were manufactured 10 years before Allach even existed, I thought that maybe it was molded with the Allach model #, which of course would have been interesting.

But I will take your word for it as I know some survived, and Identical pieces can be found by other makers, from prior to Allach's existence to now really, it appears Rosenthal made some at the same time.

Thank you for your reply.

Jarrid

**jmbh** · 09-22-2005, 06:15 AM

Thank you very much Jarrid and Robin for your analyses ; ( thank Robin , for the pictures very conclusive ) ; I hope that others will come to make us benefit from their knowledge!
Best regards !
Jean-Marie

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