Delich COA LAH Panzer Wrap

[AntiqueWW2]

Rudi von Ribbentrop reject that this had ever been his tunic. A friend and I had shown him the photos from the Beaver book and he wrote us a letter that it had never been his.

It doesn't cease to amaze me how many people fall for 'name dropping' with no firm provenance.

Fantasy pieces with no provenance never earn my respect and a lot of people just laugh their butts off behind the scenes when they see these pieces getting sold.

Markus.

Rudi was not the only one who rejected a Tunic or hat that was attributed to him. I knew several veterans who were credited with some funny decked out Tunics from an auction house or dealer but which was never in his possession. One of them was a relative of mine, Oak Winner... in his case it was a Stuag Wrapper. Also nicely done like the crap in this thread with a COA from the 70s. The only problem, the jacket was way too small and didn't fit him.The only uniform of his that still exists in my collection that he used when he was on leave.

I have absolutely no idea how anyone can pay 19K plus fees for something that doesn't have a name attributed to it or can be proven in any way. Why people still believe that fakers have only been active for the last 20 years is beyond me. They've been active since 1945 at the Day the first GI asked for a Souvenir. And the letter that came with it, what does it say? That someone bought a jacket in 1964 from Mr. X who was 88 years old? That means and says absolutely nothing and the letter is worth no more than the paper it was written on. Every time the same crap, super rare SS Wrapper, then of course LAH what else. But you can preach whatever you want, there will always be people who think they are smarter and for whom a nice little story is enough to convince them that they have found the Holy Grail. If you have something without a name, without a watertight story or proof,without connection to the family , you pay exactly the market price of the parts. And that's certainly not even close to $19,000 plus fees.

But, that's my logic, maybe it's wrong, and there sure are enough people who don't care if their jacket was worn like that in the war or was build after the war. They just want it to look good. And why not. To each his own pleasure.

[tgn]

Are he LAH shoulder board devices real? If so, just the shoulder boards alone have a very high value. And it is a fact that SS pamzer troops wore army style wraps occasionally. I would tend to believe Dave if he says he got it that way.

Tom

[JustinS]

I have absolutely no idea how anyone can pay 19K plus fees for something that doesn't have a name attributed to it or can be proven in any way. Why people still believe that fakers have only been active for the last 20 years is beyond me. They've been active since 1945 at the Day the first GI asked for a Souvenir. And the letter that came with it, what does it say? That someone bought a jacket in 1964 from Mr. X who was 88 years old? That means and says absolutely nothing and the letter is worth no more than the paper it was written on.

Could not possibly be said better than this.

[John Pic]

Rudi von Ribbentrop reject that this had ever been his tunic. A friend and I had shown him the photos from the Beaver book and he wrote us a letter that it had never been his.

It doesn't cease to amaze me how many people fall for 'name dropping' with no firm provenance.

Fantasy pieces with no provenance never earn my respect and a lot of people just laugh their butts off behind the scenes when they see these pieces getting sold.

Markus.

I know, I know where the tunic came from. I was just avoiding a long drawn out discussion about something I did not wish to quarrel about with those who worship the sellers and dealers of such pieces. You should know me better by now. We just saw two sell because of a COA and not real provenance.

[Willi Z.]

It doesn't cease to amaze me how many people fall for 'name dropping' with no firm provenance.

Fantasy pieces with no provenance never earn my respect and a lot of people just laugh their butts off behind the scenes when they see these pieces getting sold.

Markus.

I agree....

There are entire networks of collectors like this. Sad and funny at the same time.

[panzer1432]

Bidding closed at $19,000. Congrats to the winner.

That's a lot of Jack !

[John Pic]

That's a lot of Jack !

It is , too much for us serfs and laborers to fork out.

[sutka]

I wanna 2nd Justin on the post
absolutely correct

[nutmeg]

I know, I know where the tunic came from. I was just avoiding a long drawn out discussion about something I did not wish to quarrel about with those who worship the sellers and dealers of such pieces. You should know me better by now. We just saw two sell because of a COA and not real provenance.

99% are not going to have real provenance that would stand up in court or here. In the 70s you bought something from a vet , paid the money and walked out the door. Provenance was furthest thing from anyone's mind in those days, who would have supposed it would be an issue 50 years later? And even if I had a letter from the vet in 1975 and a picture of him holding it at the time of purchase it would still be dismissed here.

[N.C. Wyeth]

99% are not going to have real provenance that would stand up in court or here. In the 70s you bought something from a vet , paid the money and walked out the door. Provenance was furthest thing from anyone's mind in those days, who would have supposed it would be an issue 50 years later? And even if I had a letter from the vet in 1975 and a picture of him holding it at the time of purchase it would still be dismissed here.

Yes, it certainly seems that is the case - and I think that will forever be the enigma for any collector.

Although we all would like to be able to do so, tracing most of these things all the way back to 1945 is nearly impossible. Most of the time, the best you can do is take the story back to the time something was obtained from the Vet - and if you happen to be even more fortunate, obtain additional information that seals the Vet's story to the item. If you are gonna' spend the rest of your Life waiting for something that has iron-clad evidence back to 1945, you're going to miss out on a lot of other neat things getting old.

[John Pic]

I can get a lot of “neat” old things that I am relatively sure are pre 45 for less than $19,000. Again, at that price one should want to be sure.

[panzer1432]

I can get a lot of “neat” old things that I am relatively sure are pre 45 for less than $19,000. Again, at that price one should want to be sure.

For sure ! Agreed...There's got to be some trail of possession. Get to know the seller a bit, little intuition, make sure he's not a vet Goof Up. For 19 k need some Providence, RI. We all know some of the bad dealers.

[N.C. Wyeth]

I can get a lot of “neat” old things that I am relatively sure are pre 45 for less than $19,000. Again, at that price one should want to be sure.

No argument there.

But now the question begs to be asked, once again . . . how many genuine, pre-1945, WW2 SS Officer tunics are out there? Answer only for those bearing iron-clad, undeniable, solid proof - with documented provenance revealing it as such.

That list has to be extremely short. And even so, I bet there are some here who would say paying $19K for anything on it could still be considered a bargain.

[RobertE]

99% are not going to have real provenance that would stand up in court or here. In the 70s you bought something from a vet , paid the money and walked out the door. Provenance was furthest thing from anyone's mind in those days, who would have supposed it would be an issue 50 years later? And even if I had a letter from the vet in 1975 and a picture of him holding it at the time of purchase it would still be dismissed here.

I agree.

s/f Robert

[BenVK]

Firstly, it was $20,900 not $19k, funny how the commission is nearly always forgotten about.
Secondly, unless the bidders had access to handle the wrap, they were essentially bidding in the dark because the auction photos are totally useless.
For me that makes it all the more astonishing that it went for this price.