Norwegian Army Goerz 8x20

[Sgt Bilko]

I have a Goerz 8x20 with Norske Armee on the top right prism plate and the reticle engraved on a plate on the left (like in Seeger's grey book page 153) but I've been unable to find out the meaning of the markings on the objective plate K.SV. BEF.

Seeger's one is marked Sarpsborg Befastiunger and I know Sarpsborg is a city but it doesn't help me....

[zeissasembi]

I dont have a clue but the easy way is to say you may find more info in this link where you find KSV Kustensicherungsverband

(Click on the photoes and you will find more photoes )
http://krigsbilder.net/coppermine/index.php?cat=77



If K stands for a city .
Its maybe Kristiansands SV befestninger
https://no.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristiansand_festning

[Mikedenmark]

I have wondered about norwegian army binoculars.
Yours is the first marked example, I have ever heard of.
I have been to several militaria shows in Norway, but never saw any bino´s.

I would very much like to see photo´s of that. (PM´s not possible at this time)

K. Sv.BEF, could be Kongelig Sv ?? Befestning., or, more unlikely: Kongsvinger Befestning. Older norwegian spelling og Kongsvinger may be abreviated into K.Sv.
Not something I am sure of.
http://www.forsvarsbygg.no/festninge...nger-festning/

Sv is probably a geographic name. So, a list of befestinger, or, in english, fortifications, would help.

Or, you could try and ask here:
http://forsvaretsmuseer.no/Forsvarsmuseet/Forskning

I know a guy here in Copenhagen who may know. I will ask him.

[Mikedenmark]

I haven´t been able to locate a norwegian fortification starting with Sv.
But the norwegian army seems to have been arming up heavily between 1898 and 1907.

So, they must have bought a lot of optics as well.

Like this one. The famous Orograf.
http://marcus.uib.no/instance/photog...-ok-15612.html

You haven´t heard of that ?? Well, neither had I.

It is a rangefinder operating on the same principle as the swedish madsen M1913.
Known height over sea level, measuring from the horizon down to the target, and then you have the range.

As can be seen, it would be illegal to operate this device today. Standing bent over like that would not be allowed in a modern working place.

One very good thing is, in Norway thousands of photo´s are allready online, and more are added continuosly, so officers with binoculars will be found, eventually.
And the national archives in Oslo are to a very large extend intact. Somebody may dig in there one day.

[Sgt Bilko]

Thanks guys - it gives me somewhere to start. I've read that Norwegian Forces used German terminology so Kustensicherungsverband (Coastal Security Unit) may be possible.

But, given the one in Seeger's grey begins with a geographic title I think Kristiansands SV befestninger seems more likely - Kristiansands Fortress - or Kongelig Sv Befestning. - or Kongsvinger Befestning. So a fortress garrison binocular.

Nice picture of the rangefinder and the non health and safety ergonomics. He'll end up with the kystartilleri crouch!

[Hilton]

There is a small fortress called Sponvika close to the norwegian town Halden.

[Mikedenmark]

I cannot find any Sarpsborg bino in Seeger, grey, 2nd ed. ?? Page 153 has a french bino with rangefinder device.

Sarpsborg is a town in southern Norway. The fortifications are spread out around the town.
Two major fort are these:
https://twooutside.files.wordpress.c...4-19-49-55.jpg

https://www.google.dk/maps/place/Rav...5!4d11.1278589

http://www.forsvarsbygg.no/festninge.../Greaker-fort/

One is almost demolished, the other turned into a low security prison for women.

[Sgt Bilko]

It's very easy to miss as the only photo referring to it is of the reticle engraved on an aluminium plate (the bottom right hand picture). Other than the plate, my binocular is like any other Goerz 8x20 before the increased objective distance models.

The text explains more but it was only last night, while browsing through the grey book, that I discovered it. I must have skimmed past it many times. Apparently the one he talks of (a 7x20) belongs to an Oslo collector.

[Acez84]

Most likely a model bought pre war by the norwegian army. They bought goerz, huet & cie, and zeiss. They were marked and put into service. Officers had to pay out of their own pocket.

[Sgt Bilko]

Thanks for that.

[Mikedenmark]

I found the Sarpsborg piece now. Thank you. I had missed that as well.
Too bad, he did not show the other plate, or had a suite of photo´s of this bino.
I think, he must have received the info on a phone call. The spelling is unlike anything norwegian I know. Even Nynorsk. (Not invented yet at that time, and, hopefully, forgotten soon.)

[Acez84]

Thanks for that.

No problem. I wrote about this subject on a forum once. Some of the information is pretty generic but hopefully some find it interesting.

I translated the text to english so it can be available to those who need more information on this subject:



"Officers in Norway were offered binoculars from Goerz in 1920. They could buy both for service and private use. Those who went to the Norwegian armed forces were often engraved with IR (Infantry regiments) or AR (Artillery Regiment). Officers could also buy Zeiss binoculars, and French Huet & Cie binoculars.

In 1920 an offer arrived from Goerz to the Norwegian Army with binoculars and these prices:

Doppel-fernrohr 6 X 24 95 kr
Doppel-fernrohr 6 X 30,120 kr
Doppel-fernrohr 8 X 26 105 kr

Between 1895 and 1914 Carl Zeiss was not the only company that manufactured military binoculars with new innovations. Other German companies were also showing new products. One of the most famous companies, was Goerz Berlin. Founded by Carl Paul Goerz in 1886. The company was renamed Optische Anstalt CP Goerz in 1890. They produced scientific instruments, binoculars and telescopes. Eventually they got a special department to produce for the military.

In 1903 Goerz was the world's largest military producer of optics. A separate American wing called CP Goerz American Optical Co. was established in New York in 1905. The European Goerz had the leading binoculars model C 91. By 1906, Goerz Berlin officially introduced its products to the armed forces of the following countries: Germany, Russia, Austria, Hungary, England, Italy, Portugal, Japan, Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, the Netherlands, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, United States, North America.

Goerz Berlin announced that binoculars had the official name: Doppel-Fernrohr already from the "Model 1899". The abbreviation for doppel-fernrohr is D. F. Translated into english, this means dual-binoculars. The oposite is a monocular (single binocular). Goerz also produced single binoculars in size 4X.

The engraving on the binoculars were often as follows: 'C.P. Goerz, Berlin '(Left). 'D. F. P. no. '(Double-binoculars, personal number) (Right side). There was also produced a Goerz 8x26 model. This was called Tried Armee.

Exactly what period binoculars that were used in Norway did vary somewhat. Primarily binoculars which were produced from 1915 - 1920 when the offer came to the army officers. The three models described above are produced around 1918-1920."

[Sgt Bilko]

I appreciate you taking the time to post this. My knowledge of Norwegian military optics is sadly lacking and there doesn't seem to be much online.

Takk min venn!

[Mikedenmark]

I am pretty sure, I have an AR marked bino somewhere. Do not recall which type.
Maybe a norwegian...