Leitz beh 7x50 Kriegsmarine - advice sought

[PrienU47]

Hello everyone.

I acquired these at a local auction (Orkney) and would be interested to find out more about them.

I've looked at some very similar binoculars on this forum and the discussions have been very informative and helpful.

I would attach photos but not allowed yet, apparently, but could e-mail them to anyone interested - maybe someone could post them for me? and welcome any comments regarding date, condition, rarity, value etc.

UPDATE: photos posted on photobucket - http://s188.photobucket.com/albums/z223/PrienU47/

The optics are quite hazy, one prism has a chip, the collimation is as good as the naked eye can determine, generally usable condition, all apparently original parts/features but can never be 100% sure I suppose.

A lot of marks on the glass - some look cleanable, some permanent. At least one screw is replacement.

No case or any other accessories



As far as I can make out the details are:

• beh (Leitz) 7x50 manufactured between 1941 and 1943
  
• Porro II, alloy body black leatherette
  
• Serial numbers 325720 and 22986 suggest 1940-41 ??
  
• Forerunner to later, rubber-armoured version
  
• (T) - "Transparentenbelag" - lens coating - (visible as bluish reflection)
  
• KF - "Kalte Fett" - cold weather lubricant
  
• M - Kriegsmarine
  
• N - opinion varies - some say it indicates "Nordsee" - which would fit nicely with the Orkney connection
  
• + - don't know
  
• Triangle - don't know but one post says "Voigtlaender & Sohn, AG, Braunschweig" ???

Quite likely to have ended up here in Orkney via the Royal Navy - tens of thousands based in Scapa Flow in the war. I know there were U-boats surrendered here in '45...any thoughts?

Any information would be greatly appreciated. Will probably sell but have grown quite attached to them...

Regards,
Andy

[benutzer]

M - Kriegsmarine
N - opinion varies - some say it indicates "Nordsee" - which would fit nicely with the Orkney connection
+ - don't know
Triangle - don't know but one post says "Voigtlaender & Sohn, AG, Braunschweig" ???

----------------------------------------------------------------------

M is only Kriegsmarine if it is under the navy eagle, if it is alone on a Dienstglas it means metric screws

N well the never ending discussion, in my opinion it's the nautic number. Never saw an binoculaes with O for Ostsee and so on.

The + and the triangel are also lubrication codes, like KF

[PrienU47]

Thanks benutzer

Added some images at photobucket

http://s188.photobucket.com/albums/z223/PrienU47/

Cheers!

[benutzer]

Thanks for the pics, this kind of binos was used especalie on shipps near the coast, minecleaningboats, and so on.

[stengaard]

Hi Guys.

Interesting tread!

I have some questions concerning the stamping: I have a standard beh 7x50 with the eagle over the M. So this is clearly navy. Then I have another all the same stampings without the eagle, and no trach of it. I have see others like this with out the eagle, so my questions are: Are these glasses not navy or have the eagle never been added?

Best regards
Stengaard

[Mikedenmark]

I disagree with benutzer. The N means nordsee.
The navy procurement office for optics most likely was placed at wilhelmshaven, which is the Marinestation der Nordsee.
If it was a nautic number, then we need to know, why similar markings exist on small arms as well.

Those binoculars of this model without the navy eagle, most likely, was delivered to the army.
Many photo´s show this model in use by army officers, so definitely also used by the army.
The eagle M is a property mark of the german navy.

[stengaard]

Thanks to Mike.

What I meant was, with the M but without the eagle?

Like this one (it is not mine, it is "stolen" here on WAF).

Best regards
Stengaard

[11C]

I don't like them much Andy.

The eagle is wrong for Leitz. No way is that a Leitz eagle.
The + and Triangle were probably added later because the stamping is larger, or so it appears.
Too many number.........both sides? Not at all normal.

I believe the end plates were replaced...........and mismatched at sometime.

It is a Leitz in my opinion due to the configuration of the lower support arm but my money walks away from this one.....

[Mikedenmark]

Stengard.
The one you show here with the missing eagle had an eagle at one time.
It has been removed/erased.

Even if the M didn´t show it to be a Kriegsmarine binocular, the art. marking gives it away as such. Only the navy marked with the art. marking.

Each function on a warship had their own complement of instruments.
Ordinary observers/outlooks had theirs, and, like this one, the officers responsible for directing the artillery fire, had theirs.
The Art. marking show this belong to the fire control setup on board.

But even with a missing eagle, navy issue.

Buy my next book on navy binoculars. Then you can read about how a ship is organised. If I ever get to write it. But the plan is there. So is the background material. heh heh.

[richthofen_117]

I don't like them much Andy.

The eagle is wrong for Leitz. No way is that a Leitz eagle.
The + and Triangle were probably added later because the stamping is larger, or so it appears.
Too many number.........both sides? Not at all normal.

I believe the end plates were replaced...........and mismatched at sometime.

It is a Leitz in my opinion due to the configuration of the lower support arm but my money walks away from this one.....

I agree. The eagle on the right side is not the "Leitz" type.

[Mikedenmark]

I took another look at that eagle in the link.
If I draw a line along the top of the eagle wings, and another across the bottom ends of the M, the lines converges to the left. (They should be parallel)

If correct, the eagle and the M probably wasn´t made at the same time.
Take a look for yourself.
I don´t know so much about eagle types, so I won´t comment on that.

[11C]

The left end plate is from a Leitz mid war binocular. The + and the triangle are explained on page 123 of Seeger's book. The right end plate is from a Zeiss mid war issue. The right end plate has been switched at some point. The screws don't match from what I see in the photos, the paint doesn't either. I'd call this a "parts" binocular.

[AndyC]

Here is a picture of my Leitz and here you could see a good Leitz eagle


Andy