Leica IIIa

[Marekbjj]

Hello,

I am film camera enthusiast, I have a darkroom, develop my film at home, etc. Along with that I collect cameras.
Like most collectors, I browse local ads frequently. I saw this camera pop up, I decided to take a risk and check it out.
In searching for Wehrmacht Leica's on good old Google, I saw this forum come up a few times. I figured I'd share my find with people who may be interested.




Here's an interesting reference from James Lagers Leica Illustrated History book, if you look at the top left example in the photo you will see a camera with similar inscriptions:
https://i2.wp.com/www.casualphotophi...fit=1700%2C721

I'm really curious what the M number's significance was.
I'm also curious if WW2 collectors are even interested in such cameras?

[Marekbjj]

Leica IIIa

Found this Leica in a local ad.

[Mikedenmark]

The lens looks pretty exiting, very large front glas element. Summitar ? No marking visible if unscrewed ? Back side round panel on the lens?
The camera is possibly okay too. Eagle M33 markings looks original to me. Navy marked them with either MFxxx or Mxxx numbers. I son´t know if it will fit into known serial ranges.
You might try and look for similar Leica cameras here:
https://www.leitz-auction.com/auctio...ngeneauktionen

[Marekbjj]

The lens looks pretty exiting, very large front glas element. Summitar ? No marking visible if unscrewed ? Back side round panel on the lens?
The camera is possibly okay too. Eagle M33 markings looks original to me. Navy marked them with either MFxxx or Mxxx numbers. I son´t know if it will fit into known serial ranges.
You might try and look for similar Leica cameras here:
https://www.leitz-auction.com/auctio...ngeneauktionen

Correct, it is a Summitar. The lens does not have any military markings.

I confirmed the serial number falls within the range of cameras that were sent to the army during that time.

I honestly wonder how it got here to Canada. From my understanding the previous owner was in the Canadian military as a Public Relations Officer, I found nothing conclusive, but some fun speculations.

[MAUSER99]

I'm almost thinking the eagle design and the M 33 could possibly indicate
Kriegsmarine ? Just an educated guess..

in the sea of fakes its exciting to see an original !!!!! I hope you went after it.

[glaser]

would like to hear an expert LEICA collector on this eagle and M33 engraving ...

[Mikedenmark]

I don´t know, if it is a fake. But if the serial number match deliveries to the army, something seems wrong. Army camera´s do not sport an eagle. And navy camera´s, in those very rare cases they were marked with an eagle, was marked eagle over M. And a much smaller eagle to boot.
Not that I can say this is a fake. I have been unable to find anything similar.

[Marekbjj]

would like to hear an expert LEICA collector on this eagle and M33 engraving ...

I found an article about James Lager's book Leica Illustrated History that actually shows a similar engraving when researching Wehrmacht Leica's. I've attached the photo for reference.

I contacted James Lager by email and he's confirmed some interesting information about it. Regarding the inscriptions here's part of one of the messages:

Greetings Marek, Leica IIIa number 341706 is from a batch 341701-341900 ( 200 cameras)
prepared in 1939. I do not have the specific date of shipment or destination. You have a Leica
engraved with governmental/military markings. The Reich eagle with swastika is present.
M33 is conspicuous. Leica history specialists recognize the M as denoting marine
(German navy= Kriegsmarine ) . The meaning of numeral 33 is open to speculation. Research is
still continuing trying to get the exact significance. In my book "Wehrmacht Leica" I
illustrate Leica IIIa 340792 with M103 in the same bold font. The Reichsadler and swastika
have been defaced/removed. Data on this camera shows shipment to Berlin in September 1939.
Your camera almost certainly went to Berlin to be passed on to the navy where it was engraved .
The Reichsadler and M33 were not engraved by Leitz themselves

[Marekbjj]

in the sea of fakes its exciting to see an original !!!!! I hope you went after it.

I did actually!

The trouble is that now I feel like I need to get it to a collector or museum. I mostly want a Leica to use, not to look at LOL

[Mikedenmark]

I stand corrected. Lager show at least one Leica with an eagle without the M.

Marek. As I am a collector, and happens to have a normal Leica here, I am willing to swap with yours :-)
Congrats to a nice find.


PS. If you are staying in contact with Mr. Lager, you might want to send him these link:
https://www.axishistory.com/books/37...marine-c-p-v-a
https://www.archivportal-d.de/item/H...MD44426RRDGDN4

It is about the CPVA marked Leica he shows in his book. CPVA was one of the testing facilities of the Kriegsmarine.

[Mikedenmark]

Just found this photo.


http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12...1230369053.jpg


If one look closely at the top of the Leica to the left, it has at least dark smudges where the eagle and the M markings would be. I haven´t tried to do magic to the image. A high resolution scan might be available at the Bundesarchiv.


The man is a Marinekriegsberichter, with anchor insignias for a specialist.
They worked in MarinePropagandaabteilungen

[Marekbjj]

I just wanted to share the article where I found the photo from Jim's book if anyone was interested.

https://www.casualphotophile.com/201...-needs-to-own/

I am genuinely interested in figuring out how it may have gotten here in Canada. The previous owner was in the Canadian military as a Public Relations Officer. His name is on the inside flap of the case.

[Mikedenmark]

Looking again at your camera, and the photo I found, I realize both cameras has rings for the shoulder strap mounted at the ends. Is this a feature only seen on KB Leica´s? Unusual, at least.

[Marekbjj]

Looking again at your camera, and the photo I found, I realize both cameras has rings for the shoulder strap mounted at the ends. Is this a feature only seen on KB Leica´s? Unusual, at least.

I have seen rings like that on other Leica's, but I'm not sure if the cameras shipped with those types of rings. The mounts are typically in this location if I'm not mistaken.

The odd thing is, why does my camera have rings? Looking at the photo, he has a case on one camera and rings on the other. The case has a strap built in. I find that odd.

Speaking of the case, one thing I found interesting is the top of the case looks like it had something attached to it at one time. I am really curious to see the top of a Kriegsmarine Leica case to compare. I know Luftwaffe Leica cases are stamped, but I have yet to see a Kriegsmarine case example.

[glaser]

I don't want to be rude nor mess up your party, but until I see an eagle or an Eigentum engraving on a Leica in a wartime picture or movie I am a non believer of any of those