Hermann Goring EM cuffband - Unissued - OK?

[PaulW]

Hi all, I'm looking at this unissued HG cuff title. I thought it looked OK, but would appreciate any feedback!

The length is 46cm.

Regards, Paul

[PaulW]

2

2

[PaulW]

3

3

[PaulW]

4

4

[OSS]

I don't care for it.

[Jos L C]

+1


Jos

[PaulW]

Thanks

Thanks OSS/ Josh!

I don't find these bands easy at all! There is another of these bands, seemingly (to my eye) identical in every stitch to this band on a very reputable dealers site as we speak - the style of the umlauts, the thin threads connecting each letter, I mean every stitch, to my eye!

Looking at W Petz's superb thread:-

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=263690

and other photos (and referring only to Latin script 1942 + "Hermann Goring" bands) it's clear that there were a plethora of different styles made and worn, statistical logic would suggest even more variations than have survived in easily accessible photo references for the average collector. I expect several contracts for these bands would have existed and the HG Division probably couldn't have cared less about the slight differences in umlaut spacing etc!!

To my knowledge (from original photos), the wider spaced umlauts are more common than the narrow spaced, some bands had slightly thicker writing, some had thinner writing. There are M's in which the centre reaches the bottom (most common) and M's which reach half-way down, or about 3/4 down. Some M's have pointed bottoms, the band above has a slightly blunted bottom to the centre of the M.

I for one would love to see a reference thread put together by someone with expert knowledge of these bands to lay to rest what is good and what isn't once and for all. If anyone knows of an existing thread (I may have missed it) please feel free to point me to it and put me out of my misery....

Regards, Paul

[Willi Z.]

Paul, I don't like this one either. While, as you mentioned, wide Umlauts are common they just don't look like these IMO. Could we see the other one you are referring to?

[Jos L C]

I don't like the weaving of the letters ..

There are a million of these HG cuffs on the market, most must be bad and fakes are getting close.
Tricky stuff and loads are available.
Same with Geschwader cuffs etc, you name it, they have it, how many of these were un-issued, seems many, and then they're called tailor stock..
If only they could talk.
In the early days stuff like this was hard to get, now with the internet all is HG, SS etc.. while certain simple soldier stuff is hard to get, makes you wonder.
Just take the cloth flight badges, some are near perfect and when one has found the right person rather easy to create..
Then the puzzling starts..
Have seen a collection of a guy who had about 50 cuff titles and my guess was that 90% were fakes, OK, I'm a stupe, but that leaves about 50%, that's a lot of cash.
All starts with reference, comparing to etc, if compared the wrong way the item goes into history as original and comparing a fake to fake makes it much more difficult.
Just focus on simple badges, how they are made, the technique, if no other items are available.
Fakers do know a lot and are still learning, just like us, finally we will loose the battle against most fakes, hence the narrow focus we should have and we should not buy anything we aren't sure of.
Most dealers don't care and have their story, simple .., plus they don't need a forum, they just know..

Jos.

[PaulW]

HI, thanks again. I hear what you are saying Jos. Although I have collected as far back as the 70's (as a yougster), I have had 'collecting holidays' and am relatively new to Luftwaffe collecting. I can imagine that someone who has (over decades) consistently focused on Luftwaffe insignia for instance, and then in more recent times 'new types' of insignia appear it has to cause concern.

Thanks for your input Willi, though I would rather not 'name names', I really just wanted to check this one out without rocking the boat too much....


A little digression, an illustration from the thread below on another Forum as to how some of these bands have entered collections! The umlauts are the wide type, but looking at the spacing between the last I and N it's a different style to this one.

(From http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/viewtopic.php?id=414 - post 15)

Regards, Paul

[David Riley]

UV Black Light as a tool...

Hi Paul,

Don't forget the good o' UV Black as another useful tool for determining the authenticity of cloth items. I know they are not the "be all and end all" and some collectors seem to dislike them, but one certainly saved me from buying a fake Hermann Goring cuff title off the E-Stand last year. It looked really really good from the outside, someone had even gone to the trouble of either stitching it to a uniform or at least leaving sewing threads, to make it appear so. As soon as I got it, I black lighted the front - OK, but the rear lettering fluoresced so brightly I nearly needed sunglasses! Needless to say it went back to the seller .......

I have a small pile of LW cuff titles and a few others; many are "unissued", all are "UV negative" but I can't give the damn things away (even though most came from the E-Stand!). The only ones I will be keeping/purchasing in the future will be obviously well worn uniform removed examples.

It would appear though that the fakers are getting their hands on better materials that don't glow.....gulp! I have heard though that there is a new book coming out covering cuff titles in detail. At present the only half decent one I know of is the old "Bender" series one from the '80s.

Best of luck with it all,

David R

[RamJet]

Stitching looks like those on our today's Luftwaffe/Bundeswehr name tags ...

[RamJet]

Oh, and David:

Sadly the fakers learned well about the UV test. Nearly all high quality fakes are negative today ...

[Willi Z.]

Oh, and David:

Sadly the fakers learned well about the UV test. Nearly all high quality fakes are negative today ...

I agree Steve. But it still helps in some cases and continues to serve as a useful tool in the toolbox.

Paul, thanks for sending that link. I do not like that one either.