And the shoulder boards and shoulder board buttons are fake! LOL
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Thanks for all of your thoughts guys, appreciated! I think I will pull the trigger on this one - even though I am concerned about the shoulder boards (why would there be new boards sewn on without a promotion having been involved?), so a hands-on inspection will probably be the best way to tell. The seller has a return policy so that is comforting.
A little daunting seeing as I have never bought a Luftwaffe tunic before....
Thanks again!
BCComment
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Brad,
There most likely has been a promotion. The previous boards would have been hauptmann-style and were replaced with the major-style you now see. The collar tabs would be similarly upgraded. I'm confident everything is in order.
MikeComment
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BC - I agree with Mike, there most likely has been a promotion. If you re-read my note you'll see that while I said that I can't see previous collar tab stitch marks in the photos, I mentioned that you will most likely see them in hand.
It is a nice looking tunic. My comments were not meant to dissuade you from purchase, but rather to convey what I'm seeing and let you make your own judgement from there. Some things that may keep one collector from picking up a piece would not bother another at all. Just look at the latest "should I polish my Luftwaffe honor goblet" thread as a prime example!
Photos are almost always deceiving to a certain extent. Pieces in hand are almost always some degree of better or worse when compared to the photos provided by various sellers.
J-Comment
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Thanks guys - if there's evidence of replaced / upgraded boards, and likely to be evidence of replaced / upgraded tabs with a hands on inspection, then what's to say that this tunic isn't messed with in some way? I guess my concern is whether or not this one has been messed with or upgraded with tabs / boards of a rarer branch to up the sale price (I am not suggesting that this dealer has done this - admittedly this may have happened many years ago, so it all looks 'bedded in' now).
That said, everyone seems relatively confident that it's ok. I am just not sure how if people are also saying the boards (and likely tabs) have been replaced...?
But I suppose that this happened regularly with Luftwaffe tunics during the war with promotions and such. What are the signs here that point to it being a period alteration?
Sorry for so many questions - I guess I am just gun-shy with this potentially being my first (and probably only) Luftwaffe tunic, and I don't want to buy something questionable or with questionable resale in future. With Heer tunics (which is what I am used to) things tend to be a bit easier as the tabs were not replaced with promotions....
Cheers,
BCComment
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BC - unless you see a Luft uniform that remains in the rank it was tailored for, you will always see upgraded tabs. You'll see upgraded boards for a few reasons; most likely because the NCO had his uniform upgraded to Leutnant upon promotion, or a Hauptman had his uniform upgraded to Major upon promotion, etc. The boards have clearly been upgraded, so you should see evidence of upgraded tabs to match. That's what I meant by my comments. Otherwise there's something funky going on.
People do change out insignia of one branch for another in an effort to make more money with the sale of a piece, but it's unlikely to happen with a branch like Engineer, as they aren't as highly prized as other Luftwaffe branches. So that would be a wasted effort by a potential seller. Usually you have to worry about such a conversion with flight branch pieces, which are the most valued (and see the highest prices paid).
J-Comment
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To answer your other question about period stitching...that is much harder to authenticate. If a quality tailor used period techniques and period thread - and did the adjustments decades ago - could you tell? Not likely.
The best way to judge in my experience is to study the overall construction of the piece. Usually alterations done after a piece is originally taiored are noticable. Further still, alterations done by somebody who wasn't as skilled as the original tailor stick out like a sore thumb. So a careful review will usually highlight areas that were altered for one reason or another. Some alterations are to be expected, others require a bit of detective work or even reasonable assumptions. But it's always a matter of assessing why a piece was altered. For boards, promotions are the most likely culprit. Another reason is that he could have changed branches (as an example). When one change is made, though, other things should fall in line.
Hopefully that makes sense and helps a bit.
J-Comment
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I would be happy with this tunic.Comment
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I think any of us would; it's a nice one. A little time on a form and it will look even better, as those wrinkles will gradually come out.
BC - let us know when it arrives!
J-Comment
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I brought it.Here is on my mannequin.
Dan46Comment
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He he is with his visor on & with a few friends.
Dan46Comment
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Hi all - reinvigorating this thread instead of starting a new one. I haven't really been doing any collecting in the last year or so, but I have decided that I might 'throw the line' back into the water. I think I will start focusing on luftwaffe engineering items - there isn't much of this stuff freely available I notice... what are your thoughts on this one:
https://www.weitze.net/detail/47/Luf...g__220147.html
I know the reputation of the seller in question, but it seems the condition of the boards and tabs generally match the tunic, and I can't see too much evidence of re-applied collar tabs, though again the boards are not cleanly attached. Also would an engineer have been awarded a flying clasp...? I have asked the seller and the tunic is not named.
Hey Dan46 - if you ever decide to sell that tunic let me know
Anyone else have any Luftwaffe engineering stuff for sale?
Cheers,
BCComment
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Hi Brad,
I remember this thread. You were interested in the originally posted piece, and I guess you decided to hold off; a few months later anther forum member had bought it and posted it.
As far as this Weitze example goes, condition is not super, but it's not bad either. I see about five snags/holes, and wear showing under the arms. Nice insignia. I always like seeing the collar tab undersides, and a nice shot of where each board enters the shoulder. Two buttons have been restitched...who knows when. Very nice tailor's label. These things always need an in-hand, as even when dealers show scores of photos, sometimes they miss things which are good to know.
Send me a pm with your e-mail address and I can help you out more offline.
Best regards,
JasonComment
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Good insignia, nice tunic!
Don't go to deep into engineers until I have my officer tab and boards set ready, BC!
Comment
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Hi folks,
I am still on the hunt for an ingenieurkorps tunic. Alas I missed the last one too after deliberating for too long... seems to be a habit of mine.
I noticed this one, again with Weitze:
https://www.weitze.net/militaria/70/...g__241070.html
Firstly I thought the scalloped pocket flaps, slip on shoulderboards, interesting lining and shape of the collar seemed odd, but I note this one has an Italian tailor's label so it could be possible. Other interesting things seems to be the silver cord on the collar and tabs.
Price aside, any thoughts?
It's hard to get hold of this ingenieurkorps stuff...
Cheers
BCComment
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