What the....?

[jacquesf]

Also why would it have a pinned on luft eagle and cloth flying badge sewn on? Jacques

[Leroy]

The truth is that, in the absence of some photographic proof or ironclad provenance, this jacket will never be accepted (assuming it is made of all period materials) as anything other than a "one-off" curiosity. Without further and better photos of many things, you probably could not get even that far. I cannot even begin to guess, without all those things, what the price is based on.

I suspect (again in the absence of provenance) that the JG 27 link is a mistake. If that is so, the research into JG 27 was a waste of time. The awards listing material I mentioned does not include thousands and thousands of legitimate flight personnel. The rank lists are notoriously inaccurate and incomplete for the LW, except for higher-ranking individuals.

It would be nice to sit down with some really talented LW people (like those posting in this thread) and pass this jacket around. At this point, having never touched it, I "like" the look of it and it strikes me (especially with that hand made 'AFRIKA" cufftitle) as exactly the sort of thing that could have been produced by a local tailor for someone who wanted something "different" (even if it was never intended to be worn while actually doing any real flying).

[Gene]

If you look at the pics on his site the jacket has size markings and an RB number. There is a name tag that says _G27 (you can't see the first letter).

[Leroy]

Seeing those new photos, this jacket was certainly made from pieces of other things. An "in-hand" would be very interesting.

[JDK]

The truth is that, in the absence of some photographic proof or ironclad provenance, this jacket will never be accepted (assuming it is made of all period materials) as anything other than a "one-off" curiosity. Without further and better photos of many things, you probably could not get even that far. I cannot even begin to guess, without all those things, what the price is based on.

I suspect (again in the absence of provenance) that the JG 27 link is a mistake. If that is so, the research into JG 27 was a waste of time. The awards listing material I mentioned does not include thousands and thousands of legitimate flight personnel. The rank lists are notoriously inaccurate and incomplete for the LW, except for higher-ranking individuals.

It would be nice to sit down with some really talented LW people (like those posting in this thread) and pass this jacket around. At this point, having never touched it, I "like" the look of it and it strikes me (especially with that hand made 'AFRIKA" cufftitle) as exactly the sort of thing that could have been produced by a local tailor for someone who wanted something "different" (even if it was never intended to be worn while actually doing any real flying).

I agree 100%. I learned to never say never a long time ago when it comes to militaria. That being said, a person has to think about re-sale, and without proof of legitimacy of this jacket (photos), I can't imagine there would be many guys willing to take the risk.

JD

[kaiserwilhelm2]

I agree 100%. I learned to never say never a long time ago when it comes to militaria. That being said, a person has to think about re-sale, and without proof of legitimacy of this jacket (photos), I can't imagine there would be many guys willing to take the risk.

JD

Fully agree with JD. The jacket may be good but without anything to back it up. For about 3K someone maybe willing to take a risk but there is just no justifying 12K for this consigment piece.

[Leroy]

As to price, without more than we see now (and again assuming everything is period), I would think even 3K is too high. Of course, that's just my personal call and anyone can spend whatever they would be comfortable with.

[frank savage]

Hi there!

By my side, the RBNr code doesn't tells anything of good... That code should be right on issue garnment, and this jacket it is not a regulamentary stuff for sure...
Could be more beliveable for a tailored jacket, with a tailor label. That's right, never say never, but forehead of this kind of stuff, without any feedback of period pics or something else, my thumb is certainly down...

Cheers!

[hs132]

Hello, Leroy mentioned handmade Afrika cufftitle, are there many of those around? The size and shape of both the A's are very different. It can't be an issued type with that differance(I think). Would a hand made one be that far off? Best, Bill

[Leroy]

I have seen a couple of handmade 'AFRIKA' cuffttitles which I believed to be real (including one that was a direct vet buy years ago by a friend), but they are not common at all.

IF this jacket is real, it appears to have been put together from other things. Look at the different colors and types of stitching (on the photo of the inside) and the different materials used. Does anyone know what the parts came from? Work jacket, cut up flight suit? I personally can't ID them at this stage and hope maybe someone else can.

As we've all said, without a lot more, this jacket at best is just a curiosity at this point. The items which accompany the jacket (map, photos, data plate - not even a main frame plate, flight helmet) could be assembled by most of us in 10 minutes to create this "group". When you add in the reported price on this consignment piece, you have to believe that someone is "reaching for the stars" to create a sense of exaggerated value for a privately acquired piece.

[kaiserwilhelm2]

I have seen a couple of handmade 'AFRIKA' cuffttitles which I believed to be real (including one that was a direct vet buy years ago by a friend), but they are not common at all.

IF this jacket is real, it appears to have been put together from other things. Look at the different colors and types of stitching (on the photo of the inside) and the different materials used. Does anyone know what the parts came from? Work jacket, cut up flight suit? I personally can't ID them at this stage and hope maybe someone else can.

As we've all said, without a lot more, this jacket at best is just a curiosity at this point. The items which accompany the jacket (map, photos, data plate - not even a main frame plate, flight helmet) could be assembled by most of us in 10 minutes to create this "group". When you add in the reported price on this consignment piece, you have to believe that someone is "reaching for the stars" to create a sense of exaggerated value for a privately acquired piece.

Agreed.

[Gene]

I'd love to hear from the consignee. The photos that come with this piece look like stock, generic ones.

[Paul Woodbyrne]

As said, dont like the zip pull, could it be made from tropical motorcycle coat. odd ball garments do come up from time to time and have you scratching ones head. Price is off the wall.

[OSS]

The truth is that, in the absence of some photographic proof or ironclad provenance, this jacket will never be accepted (assuming it is made of all period materials) as anything other than a "one-off" curiosity. Without further and better photos of many things, you probably could not get even that far. I cannot even begin to guess, without all those things, what the price is based on.

I suspect (again in the absence of provenance) that the JG 27 link is a mistake. If that is so, the research into JG 27 was a waste of time. The awards listing material I mentioned does not include thousands and thousands of legitimate flight personnel. The rank lists are notoriously inaccurate and incomplete for the LW, except for higher-ranking individuals.

It would be nice to sit down with some really talented LW people (like those posting in this thread) and pass this jacket around. At this point, having never touched it, I "like" the look of it and it strikes me (especially with that hand made 'AFRIKA" cufftitle) as exactly the sort of thing that could have been produced by a local tailor for someone who wanted something "different" (even if it was never intended to be worn while actually doing any real flying).

A tailor-made or "one off" jacket would certainly not have a R.B.Nr. or size markings; these stampings were applied because the jacket was either mass produced or applied by the (post-war) creator to suggest that the jacket is an issue article. In absence of photographic evidence or other existing examples I suspect the latter is the case.

[Leroy]

A tailor-made or "one off" jacket would certainly not have a R.B.Nr. or size markings; these stampings were applied because the jacket was either mass produced or applied by the (post-war) creator to suggest that the jacket is an issue article. In absence of photographic evidence or other existing examples I suspect the latter is the case.

I agree with the above statement, with the sole exception that if the jacket was period-made using parts from other "issue" pieces, you might see such markings "transplanted' from one to another. It would be interesting to actually measure this jacket and see how the various sizes compare to the stamps. If they are a perfect match, then I smell a big rat.