Unknown german cases

[mittlapass]

Hello,
who can tell me what are these ww2 german 2 cm cases.
The fisrt one is smaller (not cut) than a Solothurn's one. Picture shows the Solothurn on right, the unknown on left.
The second ones have been found by digging in Germany.
I show you also a picture with most of the cases we can encounter. The unknown ones are the second and fourth from the right.
Sorry, I don't have them at home to give information you could request.
Regards
J-Mi

[Zünder]

@J-mi: got any dimensions ?


Zünder,


www.wk2ammo.com

[mittlapass]

Hi
unfortunately, I don't have them at home in order to take sizes.
That's why I have inserted a picture with all all them.
Regards

[me6_130]

modified under

[me6_130]

From left to rigth, as far as I know:

-1 20x80 MG-FF Oerlikon, LW on board gun
-2 20x82 MG 151/20 Mauser, LW on board gun
-3 Perhaps 20x105 Solothurn
-4 20x110 Oerlikon guns, on Hispano -Suiza and AA guns (2cm flak 28).
-5
-6 20x138b Rheinmetall-Solothurn, for Flak/Kwk/C 30-38 guns

I can't identify number 5, sorry.

Carles

PS: clear pics of the headstamps would also help.

[mittlapass]

thank's for the replies.
J-Mi

[Zünder]

I think me6-130 is right about nr. 3 being a 20x105.
However i think it's a 20x105R for the MG204, rather then one for the S-18-100 Solothurn.

Still a good find.

The other one however is a mystery, if i were you i would ask for very detailed pics, especially of the inside and upper side of the rim.

Zünder,


www.wk2ammo.com

[me6_130]

I think me6-130 is right about nr. 3 being a 20x105.
However i think it's a 20x105R for the MG204, rather then one for the S-18-100 Solothurn.

Still a good find.

The other one however is a mystery, if i were you i would ask for very detailed pics, especially of the inside and upper side of the rim.

Zünder,


www.wk2ammo.com

Both cartridges are almost identical but I thought the 20x105 for the MG204 (pic 1) was not belted, so feeding the aircraft MG could be done from an ammo belt, not from magazines. The belted ones, as this case, were ammo for anti tank semi-auto guns (pic 2), fed from ten cartridge magazines.

Carles

[Zünder]

@me6-130: the first MG 204 cases were belted, because of loading problems, they removed the belt of the original cases which resulted into the beltless version you are showing and which is the most common known MG 204 case.

So there were 2 types:

1: early belted version
2: beltless (and final) version

J-Mi. seems to be the early version (type 1).


Zünder,


www.wk2ammo.com

[me6_130]

@me6-130: the first MG 204 cases were belted, because of loading problems, they removed the belt of the original cases which resulted into the beltless version you are showing and which is the most common known MG 204 case.

So there were 2 types:

1: early belted version
2: beltless (and final) version

J-Mi. seems to be the early version (type 1).


Zünder,


www.wk2ammo.com

But if not mistaken, that same belted ammo was the one they used for the Solothurn anti tank gun, so we would be talking about the same ammo: the 20x105 S-18-100 belted.

Carles

[Zünder]

@me6-130: the cases for S-18-100 and early MG204 had exactly the same dimensions, the only way to tell apart is through the headstamps.
The shells however could have been different.

Apparently the trials for both MG 204 and S-18-100 were conducted in the same timeframe and some say the Heereswaffenamt had a plan to use the same cases for both weapons.
From a logistical point of view, not a bad choice.

Zünder,


www.wk2ammo.com

[me6_130]

Yes, that was my thought. As it is only a case we cannot make the difference and for that reason I suggested we got some pics of the headstamps.

Carles

[jiipee76]

Number 5 is interesting specimen.Not seen this type/size casing before.

[me6_130]

Yep, it seems to be one of a kind...

Carles

[mittlapass]

Hello
thanks a lot for all the replies.
I'll try to take more pictures when I'll got them again into my hands.
Regads
J-Mi