3.7cm Flak cartridge - Pictures?

[P08]

Good evening fellow WWII fans. I have just seen and held a cartridge from a Flak cannon. Needless to say I didn't have my camera with me The cartridge read 3,7cm Flak WaA406 1939. That thing was huge! At least it seemed very big to me. Of course I'm used to handguns only so that might be the reason I'm so impressed.

I wonder if any of you have pictures of these rounds with a projectile on them? This one has no projectile so it could be fun to see a complete one.

BTW the same guy also had a cartridge (if that's what you call it?) from the railway cannon called "Thick Bertha" (don't know if you call it that in english) from WWI. That thing was enormous!! The crew on that cannon must have been deaf after one shot...

[Zünder]

Some pictures can be found here:


http://213.147.167.60/blaze/viewtopic.php?t=512

http://213.147.167.60/blaze/viewtopic.php?p=2726#2726

http://213.147.167.60/blaze/viewtopic.php?p=1205#1205

[Bob Lembke]

Dicke Berta

Dear P08;

The "Dicke Berta" was a 42cm howitzer that served in Belgium and France in 1914, then some were rushed to the East Front, and they finally shot their barrels out at Verdun. They had many shells, the heaviest weighted 3150 lbs., most were lighter, the special fortress-buster shells were 2550 lbs. Some were railroad transportable, some could go by road, but none were actual RR guns, although there might have been a 42cm RR howitzer in WW II.

My grand-father was involved with them; I have letters he wrote from the firing positions in Belgium as they shot the Belgian forts apart.

Re: "the same guy also had a cartridge (if that's what you call it?) from the railway cannon called "Thick Bertha" (don't know if you call it that in english) from WWI." I e-mailed a bit with a German shell-casing collector, might be your guy.

Re: "That thing was enormous!! The crew on that cannon must have been deaf after one shot..." My info is not authorative, but they broke windows from two blocks to two miles about when they fired. I have a Belgian account of how a crowd of pissed Belgians watched as one was set up in central Brussels to shell a fort on the west side of town; when it fired it knocked the crowd down to the ground, supposedly. I have heard that the crews wore protective suits, lay on the ground, and fired from a distance electrically.

I will be writing a book partially about them in a couple of years, any info appreciated. They were considered secret and there is not too much information, and some deliberate disinformation about these guns.

Bob Lembke

[P08]

Zünder


Thanks. Nice to see some pictures. Also a page where I may need to do some reading when I get some spare time.

Bob

Thanks for the info. Yes it must have been extremely loud. Almost unimagineable. There must have been many many soldiers working on such cannons. They may have been powerful, but certainly not practical due to size, weight and necessary equipment.

The guy who had these is my local gun dealer. I never knew he had any historical artifacts. I spotted the Flak cartridge by coincidence on a shelf and that got us talking.

[Matt L]

Hi P08,

I have to say, I chuckled at your description of the 3,7cm Flak round as 'huge' I once thought so too, and since you say that you're mainly familiar with small arms ammuniton, the round would indeed look big, but look at this:



That's an 8,8cm Kw.K.43 round next to a 3,7cm Pak round (only about 6.5cm shorter than the Flak Sprgr.)- so you can see why I no longer consider the 3,7cm Flak round even 'big' The 12,8cm Flak Sprgr is even bigger- around 1.8m tall!

Matt

[P08]

WOW


What was that round used for? Tanks?

[Zünder]

Actually, the best one, the rarest one, is the 3,7 cm round.
In comparison to the 8,8 cm Panzergranatpatrone 43, the 3,7 cm panzergranatpatrone 40 ist rarer.
Although the 3,7 cm Pzgr. 40 shows up every now and then, a complete round with correct case (which is not a usual 3,7 cm pak case) is quit rare.

@Matt: that's an original Pzgr. 40 case ? Sure looks that way...

@P08: that's a round for Tiger 2 or Kingtiger, and for 8,8 cm Pak 43.

[Bob Lembke]

Attention: PAK collectors

Guys;

I live in Philadelphia, a city of about 1.5 million people. A couple of years ago, I visited a friend's house in the city, in an area of some-what lower-income houses, individual houses on land lots of about 50 feet wide and say 90 feet deep, and the house next door had a 75mm PAK on the front lawn. Looked like it was there for years. Probably it is still there now.

The owner had painted it purple!!!

Bob Lembke

[Matt L]

@Matt: that's an original Pzgr. 40 case ? Sure looks that way...

Sorry for the delay Marcel- well the image isn't of rounds in my collection, although I do have examples of both. But to answer your question- yes I do have an original 3,7cm Pzgr 40 round- recovered from the desert in Libya actually. Apparently, a couple of metal cases of this ammunition were discovered and a few rounds made their way to North America- luckily for me! The cases even had the Afrika Korps palm tree on them- wish I could have had one of those to go with the round...

It's in pretty good shape considering. The case is brass-plated steel and while it is corroded and pitted, overall it's not that bad. The projectile even has its original aluminum tip. The headstamps are partly obscured by the corrosion, but the '41 manufacture date is quite clear- that date is also on the projectile actually.

Matt

[Zünder]

@Matt: you're Pzgr. 40 is the first type, the "3,7 cm Panzergranate 40 Ausführung A, which had a tip made out of an aluminium/Copper/Magnesium alloy.

The other version : Ausführung B had a tip made out of "Preßstoff" , what we would call bacalite.

Cases for Pzgr 40 are easily recognizeable; they have a crimp almost at the base of the neck, this in comparison to the normal 3,7 cm Pak case, which has a crimp just below the mouth of the case.