Concrete Mine

[milsurp]

Hello,

I recently bought a German concrete mine and I am curious what type of fuse were used with this type of mine. I have been told they used ZZ.42 fuses (confirmed by picture below), but I think this is incorrect if you look at how the schumine works and given these were largely used in booby traps. I have also been told that they use ZZ.35 fuses, but I'm not sure, I would have expected them to use a pressure igniter like the DZ.35.

I'm interested in your opinions on this one and if anyone has any pictures to throw in I would be grateful.

Cheers,

Craig.

[Mark Holden]

Hello Craig,

All german mines took a variety of fuses pressure, pull type and electric, as far as I can recall the Betonmine was surface emplaced so a pull or trip igniter is correct rather than a pressure type.

I hope this helps, nice example by the way, I still need to find one of these for my own collection.

Cheers

Mark

Hello,

I recently bought a German concrete mine and I am curious what type of fuse were used with this type of mine. I have been told they used ZZ.42 fuses (confirmed by picture below), but I think this is incorrect if you look at how the schumine works and given these were largely used in booby traps. I have also been told that they use ZZ.35 fuses, but I'm not sure, I would have expected them to use a pressure igniter like the DZ.35.

I'm interested in your opinions on this one and if anyone has any pictures to throw in I would be grateful.

Cheers,

Craig.

[W Petz]

Craig,

The Stock-Minen 43 did use the ZZ35 igniter and was used as a booby trap. The Cement mine had a round explosive charge the was fitted inside the mine...the fuse igniter inserted through the top into the charge. the cement mine was set on top of a round wooden stake sharpened at the bottom and staked into the ground.....a wire or string would be attached to the pull ring on the igniter and tied off to a tree, bush or whatever. The unlucky person who tripped the wire would be peppered with chunks of concrete also pieces of metal shards or bullets that were mixed into the cement. The Stock-minen came in two colors Green or sand tan color. I found a number of these cement mines (without fuses or charges) down a hillside in Luxembourg. I still have them in my collection. Bill Petz

[Sturmpnr]

Hello,

They used both the ZZ35 and ZZ42 as well as other fuzes in this mine, in particular the longer version of the ZZ35 as well. I have found many of these in Kurland and in Narva both in various shades of green, white and tan, for the various weather conditions or land conditions they were used in.

Regards,

Toomas

[milsurp]

Thanks Toomas, Bill, Mark.

Interesting... I have always found it difficult to find information out about mines and in particular the concrete mine, there is next to no documentation about them, even when you look at the Aberdeen proving ground documents.

I have also read first hand accounts of Allied soldiers first encounters with these mines, stating that they found a new mine that the metal detectors could not find. I have always taken that as the mine was burried, so I guess they must have used the DZ.35 or similar fuse. However as you correctly point out, most of the mines take more than one type of fuse and so I guess it was used in the most ingenius of ways!

I would love to see some period photos of this mine if anyone has any or can scan any.

Thanks,

Craig.

[W Petz]

Toomas,

I never saw this stock-minen in white...I'm not saying it wasn't made that way or possibly painted. Do you have a photo of one in white...I would be interested in seeing it and possibly obtaining one.

Craig,

Sticking the Stock-minen in the ground with a DZ35 fuze igniter would defeat the purpose and the effect of this concrete mine which when exploded would send shards of concrete and metal bits through the air. If it was in the ground the blast effect would be deadened and ineffective. Now you may be thinking more of the Bouncing Betty which was emplaced into the ground and sprung up into the air when tripped....exploding and showering small bearings in all directions. Mind you both are dangerous due to the tripping wire (also prongs in the case the bouncing betty) so you were real close to the blast and maximum damage to the body as a result. Bill

[Sturmpnr]

Hello,


I dont have photos accessible at this time but will try later this fall, all of my photos are archived and unaccessible at this time. These were often painted in the field to match the color of the surrounding terrain.

Regards,

Toomas

[W Petz]

Pic #1

[W Petz]

pic#2

[W Petz]

pic#3

[W Petz]

pic#4

[W Petz]

Craig,

I forgot to address your comment about "Soldiers found a new mine that metal detectors could not find" That certainly wouldn't be the Stock-Minen (Cement Mine) because it was formed in a mold which had bits of metal schrapnal and bullet heads mixed into it...a metal detector would pick it up very quickly besides that it was above ground anyway and could be spotted much easier than a Bouncing Betty (except in the dark of course). Now I seem to recall hearing that statement but it referred to the schueminen (Shoe mine) which was made out of wood and easily camoflaged amongst twigs and leaves. Bill

[W Petz]

Toomas,

OK! as suspected it would be painted white for winter camoflage purposes. I still would like to see a pic of one whenever you are able to access your archives. Thanks! - Bill

[milsurp]

Bill,

Thanks for the pics, very interesting. Can I ask your source for these pics?

Interestingly, my mine has no metal shards in the concrete at all, there must have been variants of this mine. Picture #4/text, says that the shrapnel was put in the hollow of the stock mine, perhaps my example is the second type.

The comments were deffinetly made with respect to the concrete mine and not the schueminen 42. I will try and find the source again, perhaps I am wrong I will let you know.

Now, I am fairly certain the schueminen 42 was a ground buried mine, given that the top lid when fully closed under pressure pushes the safety pin out of the ZZ.42 fuse and so detonates the mine. I am however not denying that it could be used with a trip wire when secured to something like your picture and the concrete mine, but certainly makes more sense as a pressure mine to me given the design. It would also be difficult to use the schueminen as an above ground booby trap with a ZZ.42 fuse, as you would have to be very careful not to squeeze the box and push the safety fuse out when securing it. Do you have any pictures of this mine being used above ground?

Thanks for the pictures and the information.

Craig.