Questionable Marinehelferin Uniform

[MarineHelferin]

Hello,

I picked up this uniform. I collect WW2 DRK items, and WW2 Marinehelferin items. The auction
auction site claims this is an early war uniform. I have only seen one other uniform like this with a belt. The thing that bothers me is there is no breast eagle. Is this perhaps a private purchased uniform, or post war ?http://www.pastbuy.net/objekt.php?id=28644 I did notice, that the auction site did de nazify all their WW2 items with breast eagles

[NickG]

I posted the pictures for you!
Not sure...never seen anything like this before...

[NickG]

Close up...
I would contact WAF member : djpool (in case he does not view this thread)
email: pzrgtgd@hotmail.com

He is doing a book on helferinnen..maybe he will recognize it!
The way the breast pockets are designed there would be no room for a breast eagle....

[djpool]

Hi Nick,

Actually we've been in contact.

The item has some features peculiar to KM Helferinnen Red Cross style jackets in Navy Blue. However there are a number of modifications that lead me to believe (best case) that its a post war modified jacket.

I have included a picture from Patrick Ott showing what I believe to be an original DRK style jacket that may have been used by the KM. There are no known wartime pictures of this style jacket being worn by KM personnel.

On Army jackets the breast eagle was worn on the pocket flap for signal personnel and below the flap for staff personnel.
jim

Close up...
I would contact WAF member : djpool (in case he does not view this thread)
email: pzrgtgd@hotmail.com

He is doing a book on helferinnen..maybe he will recognize it!
The way the breast pockets are designed there would be no room for a breast eagle....

[NickG]

Great!
Yes that's true, breast eagle mounted on the pocket flap Yes I remember now, I have seen that before actually!
Great KM helferin uniform!

[MarineHelferin]

Thanks for your thoughts, and input Nick, and Jim. I had a photo of a very similiar uniform in my files, but I can't seem to find it. I remember reading in Gordon Williamson's book, and some other documents that there were jackets with belts at one point of the year. I don't have enough resources to back this, or challenge it. But if it were true, do you believe this jacket could be that ?

A modified uniform, a post war uniform or etc.., I just hope I did not burn my bank account for an idiotic reason, and made a wise choice. The online auction site really got me with lots of extra fees.

Thank you, Jim for posting the double breasted uniform. I've seen quite a few Marinehelferin double breasted style uniforms, this being one of them.

[compressore]

I can not contribute to the question itself but the auction house you mentioned is full of fakes...buyer beware !!

Regards
Christian

[djpool]

I doubt this is a reproduction just because it doesn't conform to standard examples of the jacket. So its either a commercial item, custom wartime item for MH or a wartime MH item modified for postwar wear.

Many of the clothing items worn by female auxiliaries during the war were based on commercial designs of the day. So you can't rule this out. The belt looks commercial.

Maybe its a wartime piece for some civil or political organization. I ran into a lot of problems trying to separate pictures of Wehrmacht auxiliaries from civil/political organizations.

If the jacket was a modified wartime piece you'll need to check if there were modifications. For example were buttons added, was it lengthened, were flaps added to the bottom pockets, were closure straps removed etc.

As far as custom pieces go it becomes a matter of faith or finding photographic evidence to support its wear. I added a picture from Patrick Otts collection showing a DAF member wearing a similar style of jacket. As I remember the DAF may have worn dark colored clothing too. Jim

Thanks for your thoughts, and input Nick, and Jim. I had a photo of a very similiar uniform in my files, but I can't seem to find it. I remember reading in Gordon Williamson's book, and some other documents that there were jackets with belts at one point of the year. I don't have enough resources to back this, or challenge it. But if it were true, do you believe this jacket could be that ?

A modified uniform, a post war uniform or etc.., I just hope I did not burn my bank account for an idiotic reason, and made a wise choice. The online auction site really got me with lots of extra fees.

Thank you, Jim for posting the double breasted uniform. I've seen quite a few Marinehelferin double breasted style uniforms, this being one of them.

[djpool]

here are a few similar jackets.

[djpool]

Notice the belt.

[MarineHelferin]

Thank you Jim for your thoughts, and photos. The last photo you posted, I saw many similarities. Do you have photos of some examples of civil or political female uniforms ? Also when I receive this uniform, would you like me to photograph the uniform to see if it was possibly modified ?

[djpool]

Unfortunately I don't collect political/civil items so I don't have any contemporary examples to show/compare to. It would be nice to see some detailed photographs.Jim

Thank you Jim for your thoughts, and photos. The last photo you posted, I saw many similarities. Do you have photos of some examples of civil or political female uniforms ? Also when I receive this uniform, would you like me to photograph the uniform to see if it was possibly modified ?

[wilhelm Saris]

the ladies from posts 9 and 10 all are Strassenbahn that's for sure!