Scharnhorst Cap Tally - Opinions Please

[R.R.]

Hi,


Please, I need some opinions about this Scharnhorst Cap Tally. Sorry, I don't have rear side pictures.



Regards,

Ricardo

[Felix]

Is it metallic thread?
Any close up photos of the lettering?

//Felix

[R.R.]

Is it metallic thread?
Any close up photos of the lettering?

//Felix

Hi Felix,

Unfortunatelly informations I have about it are very sumary, only this poor picture and it's lenght, about 140cm. Seems to me at my screen it's a metallic thread but I'm not all sure.

I'm interested in this piece, but I'm not all confortable with the few informations I have about it. Please, considering it's thread as a metallic or cellon, how much are it's values at actual market. Seller's price looks a little bit strange than I supposed for this piece, but may be i'm wrong about it.

Thanks,

Ricardo

[Felix]

Please get the lenght of each side of the text. There are some famous repros from a Museum in the UK of these tallies. One end is shorter on these. Real ones are rare. If it is in metallic thread I say you have an original. They do cost. I think a USD 100 for a full length is ok.

Felix

[petopoint]

Scharnhorst Tally

Hi, an original Scharnhorst cap tally isn't all that rare. They generally retail at the lower end for Kriegsmarine cap Tallis. Tallys for Reknowned E-boats and destroyers bring a higher value due to limited personnel. There are so many easily reproduced phony ones and of course fantasy such as The Bismarck, that without better detailed photos it would be wise to pass.

[R.R.]

Hi,

If Felix is correct, I think seller's price is coherent with the market. But the only informations I have are in the link below:

http://www.beck-militaria.de/3-REICH...st::16225.html

Don't appears to me it's the same reproduction sold at HMS Belfast some years ago, but I don't know if there is others good qualit reproductions on market.

Regards,

Ricardo

[JustinG]

Hi, an original Scharnhorst cap tally isn't all that rare. They generally retail at the lower end for Kriegsmarine cap Tallis. Tallys for Reknowned E-boats and destroyers bring a higher value due to limited personnel. There are so many easily reproduced phony ones and of course fantasy such as The Bismarck, that without better detailed photos it would be wise to pass.

The Scharnhorst tally is more common than the Gneisenau, but I wouldn't say it is all too common. The Scharnhorst is infamous for having a very well made duplicate "Belfast" copy. The uneven lengths at the end are dead giveaways for this. Destroyers are more expensive especially any one of the 10 that participated in the Narvik Campaigns. ( there are many members who are trying to collect from this specific battle) I am of course, one. I am only missing two destroyer tallies left. Anton Schmitt (Which incidentally was the last ship to have tallies made. These were only made in Cotton thread, and the Erich Koellner.

Eboat tallies are scarcer, but there as far as quantity, there is only the:
1. Schnellbootsflottille, 1. Schnellbootshalbflottille, 2. Schnellbootsflottille and the tenders/begleitshciff Tanga and Tsingtau (The Tsingtau is a rare one and I am still scouring for this one.) I haven't seen a photo of the Tsingtau in wear or in a collection. I would love to see one.

The more expensive tallies seem to mostly be focused on the U-boat fleet, and rare larger ships like the Blucher or Admiral Hipper, The Admiral Graf Spee is another one that collectors like to have in their collections. I am amazed at how some tallies like the Koln, Emden, Leipzig, etc are not too expensive and easy to obtain.
The Prinz Eugen is a rare one if you can find an original example. I was fortunate to find two


If a seller is not wanting to show a detailed shot of the reverse, I would agree and you should walk away.

On the bottom of your photograph, it appears that there are some loose threads possibly a re-sewn to this tally. Be careful as this might be an attempt to pass a Belfast fake off.

Here is a scan of metalfaden version of the Scharnhorst from my collection.

Regards,
JustinG

[R.R.]

Hi Justin,

Thanks for your thoughts too, I'm asking seller for better pictures, reverse included, and waiting for his reply. If he returned me, I'll post the pictures here for review.

Regards,

Ricardo

[Trance_Eyes]

Hi guys,
I agree this tally looks suspect. Closer pictures will tell the story.
If that is an attempt to sew an extra length on that one end it's a bad sign!

I reckon both scharnhorst and gneissenau tallies are hard to come by but do come up.

Better pictures will give the clues!

Season greetings!
JustinC

[John R.]

I agree that Scharnhorst tallies are not falling off trees. I personally value them at 200 USD or a bit more depending on condition.

This one requires detailed high resolution images of the threads on the reverse, although this does not help much with a Belfast fake.

If it is sewn together anywhere, and this is not an absolute since we find tallies with sewn ends, it is suspect. The key is where exactly is the tally sewn, but a faker could simply cut a Belfast fake even at the name and add equal lengths to make it appear period. In other words, get a fairly common KM tally and cut off the ends and attach them to the cut Belfast fake.

You would maybe pay 50 USD for the KM tally and make 200 USD on the Scharnhorst fake, so not a bad deal.

All Scharnhorst tallies must be studied in detail and with doubt until proven otherwise. This one more than any other German tally is dangerous.

My two cents.

John

[Marine HJ]

Hi Gents,

happy new year to all of you.

Although it is all correct what said before rgdg the required care especially with Scharnhorst tallies, I'm quite confident we can see a wonderful original metall tally for a bargain price!

At least this is my honest opinion on that.

Rgds and happy collecting in 2013

Daniel

[R.R.]

Hi Gents,

happy new year to all of you.

Although it is all correct what said before rgdg the required care especially with Scharnhorst tallies, I'm quite confident we can see a wonderful original metall tally for a bargain price!

At least this is my honest opinion on that.

Rgds and happy collecting in 2013

Daniel

Because there is some doubts about it, I requested seller better pictures and he answered me today asking me some time more to take the shots.

Regards,

Ricardo