Kriegsmarine Marksmen Document

[Spencer]

The document is full size (about 16"x12") - It would not fit in the scanner

Is this rather rare? And what would be its value?

Thanks

Spencer

[John R.]

I will let this run here for a few days then move it to the paper forum in case somebody wishes to make comments.

John

[Norm F]

The document has a chance of being real but I doubt that it's worth that much on it's own without an original lanyard with provenance (check in documents forum). Of course this level 1 award document has nothing to do with the DDR lanyard nor the level 4 shield you posted in the other thread. I hope you didn't pay too much.
I think the shield alone is a nice interesting collectible item, although there doesn't seem to be whole lot of interest in them for some reason, maybe because most were awarded pre-war and they don't carry the national symbol.
Best regards,
---Norm

[Spencer]

Thank you!

Norm

Thanks again for the advice

Spencer

[Gary B]

The document has a chance of being real but I doubt that it's worth that much on it's own without an original lanyard with provenance (check in documents forum). Of course this level 1 award document has nothing to do with the DDR lanyard nor the level 4 shield you posted in the other thread. I hope you didn't pay too much.
I think the shield alone is a nice interesting collectible item, although there doesn't seem to be whole lot of interest in them for some reason, maybe because most were awarded pre-war and they don't carry the national symbol.
Best regards,
---Norm

Dear Spencer,

The document looks to be an original from the scans. The ones I have seen always have hand calligraphied details, as yours depicts. Of the various marksmanship lanyard documents, the Navy ones come up for sale the least. Luftwaffe seems to be the most common. I would disagree with Norm's statement that "its not worth much on its own w/o an original lanyard with provenance". That could be said of any document/medal then. The document price would be for the document on its own, which are much rarer than the the Navy lanyards themselves. I do agree with Norm's statement that, for whatever reason, these are not highly saught after.

As for the lanyard, the Navy ones are by far the scarcest of the service lanyards (IMO for ease of finding - Heer followed by Luftwaffe). I would have to check my reference books about the number of loops on a good lanyard but for Heer 14 is the accepted number, although there are exceptions (private purchase pieces) to this rule.

$500 for the set is too high IMO.

Gary B

[John R.]

Again, interesting thread which I will leave here vice moving. I suggest that you post the doc on the paper forum in a new thread there if you wish more comments. John

[Norm F]

Dear Spencer,

The document looks to be an original from the scans. The ones I have seen always have hand calligraphied details, as yours depicts. Of the various marksmanship lanyard documents, the Navy ones come up for sale the least. Luftwaffe seems to be the most common. I would disagree with Norm's statement that "its not worth much on its own w/o an original lanyard with provenance". That could be said of any document/medal then. The document price would be for the document on its own, which are much rarer than the the Navy lanyards themselves. I do agree with Norm's statement that, for whatever reason, these are not highly saught after.

As for the lanyard, the Navy ones are by far the scarcest of the service lanyards (IMO for ease of finding - Heer followed by Luftwaffe). I would have to check my reference books about the number of loops on a good lanyard but for Heer 14 is the accepted number, although there are exceptions (private purchase pieces) to this rule.

$500 for the set is too high IMO.

Gary B

Yes, I agree with Gary's analysis and appreciate his comments. I didn't mean to imply the document was worthless, just that they're not highly valued by collectors for whatever reason. But there may always be someone looking for just such an item for their collection at any time. Once again if you post a link to this thread in the documents section you may get some very useful input.
It's a very good point that the document is probably more rare than the lanyard itself since a) paper tends to disappear (e.g. all the KVKII and EKII documents nobody sees for such an incredibly common award) and b) I would wager there are a fair number of unawarded private purchase lanyards of the artificial silk variety floating around.
14 knots for KM lanyard of course, possibly 13 on rare pieces but which then raises the usual concerns about non-standard items.
Best regards,
---Norm

[Simon O.]

The value of these lies in the simple fact that they look nice. They're pretty common, perhaps 50-75 Euros.

a) paper tends to disappear (e.g. all the KVKII and EKII documents nobody sees for such an incredibly common award)

Eh? KVKII m\S and EKII docs are all over the place, proportion wise they're about as common as the mass of corresponding medals.