Warning: session_start(): open(/var/cpanel/php/sessions/ea-php74/sess_a06b4caadeedb0ba22c62a188e76bb7a675ce6d9c2ed05cf, O_RDWR) failed: No space left on device (28) in /home/devwehrmacht/public_html/forums/includes/vb5/frontend/controller/page.php on line 71 Warning: session_start(): Failed to read session data: files (path: /var/cpanel/php/sessions/ea-php74) in /home/devwehrmacht/public_html/forums/includes/vb5/frontend/controller/page.php on line 71 M40 TROUSERS from Dutch cloth - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums
CollectorsGuild

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

M40 TROUSERS from Dutch cloth

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 2
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous 1 2 template Next
    #16
    Originally posted by antifake View Post
    Ok and what make these pants german ?

    Radek
    Radek,
    Dutch army blend of wool used and cut. I doubt that the pair from Mike Davis used to to my comparsion is civilian:

    COMPARSION3.jpg

    http://virtualgrenadier.com/sale_item.php?iid=4206

    I never stated that my pair is textbook, my question reamins the same:- Are these were private tailored from Dutch wool or reworked from Dutch army issue garment?

    Comment

      #17
      Mike's pants are textbook. On your pants is not military lining. Back waist strap is nothing military. It has every old pants. So what is on your's pants military?

      Radek

      Comment

        #18
        Originally posted by antifake View Post
        Mike's pants are textbook. On your pants is not military lining. Back waist strap is nothing military. It has every old pants. So what is on your's pants military?

        Radek
        Please check some other Dutch army garment and you will discover why I think that were made from Dutch cloth. If they looks civilian to you ... Well you have right to think that way.
        Regards

        Comment

          #19
          Originally posted by Grubhy View Post
          Hello Again Hptm. Fuhrmann ,
          You states that Swiss trousers from your link are identical to mine. I took some effort and took the picture here to compare:- two totaly different ways of cut, different buckle, wool etc.
          You made the effort to compare the swiss trousers to yours and then compared texbook german trousers to yours and you still state that the swiss ones are totally different even though their construction is way closer to yours than the german ones?

          Well here are some more comparisons:

          Note the hooks on top of the button bar and the 2-piece construction of the waistband.


          Now the biggest clue - compare the shape and construction of the side pockets! And YES, the wool and some minor details are different, but that's because your trousers are a newer model that evolved from the old one.

          If you're still not satisfied, I dug up my 1950s swiss army overcoat for some colour and wool comparisons (german M43 tunic sleeve for a contrast):



          And as if the colour wasn't close enough, the weave of the wool is IDENTICAL! Swiss army wool has a typical blue-grey shade pretty close to WW2 italian army wool, dutch wool on the other hand had more of a blue-green shade and that can be seen quite well in your first comparison picture with your dutch tunic.

          I rest my case now as I don't know how I can make it more clear to you. I think you are hell bent on denying that your trousers can be anything other than dutch or german ones, but until you can prove it, they are swiss to me.

          Best regards

          Comment

            #20
            Hptm. Fuhrmann,

            thanks for your effort and time spent.

            In my comparing pictures of shades of wool blend used is blind street. Please note that you comparing PICTURES (daylight/flash, file format etc.).

            You are not able to find Swiss trousers in the same cut. Why? You said that these are "Swiss Army Ord. 1926 wool trousers"...

            I do have Swiss garment and I compared it to the trousers. These are different. What is more interior of the Swiss garment is always well marked with stamps, "Cross+date":- check your coat inside. My trousers are marked inside but in different way.

            I do know how the Swiss wool looks like and I'm trying to assure you that my trousers were not made from that wool. If you dont want to believe me ok.


            Originally posted by Hptm. Fuhrmann View Post
            You made the effort to compare the swiss trousers to yours and then compared texbook german trousers to yours and you still state that the swiss ones are totally different even though their construction is way closer to yours than the german ones?

            Well here are some more comparisons:

            Note the hooks on top of the button bar and the 2-piece construction of the waistband.


            Now the biggest clue - compare the shape and construction of the side pockets! And YES, the wool and some minor details are different, but that's because your trousers are a newer model that evolved from the old one.

            If you're still not satisfied, I dug up my 1950s swiss army overcoat for some colour and wool comparisons (german M43 tunic sleeve for a contrast):



            And as if the colour wasn't close enough, the weave of the wool is IDENTICAL! Swiss army wool has a typical blue-grey shade pretty close to WW2 italian army wool, dutch wool on the other hand had more of a blue-green shade and that can be seen quite well in your first comparison picture with your dutch tunic.

            I rest my case now as I don't know how I can make it more clear to you. I think you are hell bent on denying that your trousers can be anything other than dutch or german ones, but until you can prove it, they are swiss to me.

            Best regards

            Comment

              #21
              Tailor made trousers made in foreign wool ...Dutch ? why not ?
              Not a regular M40 Army issue trousers .
              The front hook is typical of tailor made trousers .
              Nick

              Comment

                #22
                Nice trousers made with Dutch materials and loosely made after a Dutch pattern. Not converted and a nice period pair, nothing swiss! Would be a nice match with this tunic

                https://fjm44.com/product/1940-dated...e-netherlands/

                Frederik
                Last edited by 4th division; 09-25-2017, 04:37 AM. Reason: i

                Comment

                  #23
                  Wow, after all the comparing I've done, you guys still back the dutch theory?

                  Originally posted by GAMS1 View Post
                  The front hook is typical of tailor made trousers .
                  The front hook is also typical for all patterns of swiss trousers.

                  Originally posted by 4th division View Post
                  Nice trousers made with Dutch materials and loosely made after a Dutch pattern. Not converted and a nice period pair, nothing swiss!
                  Can you please show me the dutch pattern these trousers are supposed to be loosely made after? I've found those: https://militariaplaza.nl/holland-du...pants-1-detail but yet again, I see way more similarities to swiss trousers than to those, especially looking at the wool.

                  Comment

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Hptm. Fuhrmann View Post
                    Wow, after all the comparing I've done, you guys still back the dutch theory?



                    The front hook is also typical for all patterns of swiss trousers.



                    Can you please show me the dutch pattern these trousers are supposed to be loosely made after? I've found those: https://militariaplaza.nl/holland-du...pants-1-detail but yet again, I see way more similarities to swiss trousers than to those, especially looking at the wool.
                    I guess you see something which is not existing , when you writing that those are swiss re-worked pants .

                    First of all ; you comapring blue/black pants with fieldgrey pants ( and ath they same time writing about similiraties in wool ).
                    Second; you comapring photos made with flesh with photos made without flesh in daylight ( which makes diffrence in perception of the wool and details etc. )
                    Third; you writing about similiraties using 'parts' widely used in whole Europe at that time - mostly in civilain market but also often in military ( for example you writing that the use of the hook in waist writing it is typical for swiss army - than I can write that very similar hook was used in soviet pants also in the same place on waist line - so using your logic those pants must be soviet than ).
                    Fourth; you trying to skip the most important diffrencies in construction of pants, focusing on only on those parts/similiraties important to your theory ( for example you completely skip the lack of watch pocket or diffrences of waist construction at back).

                    The most important; those are not german made but foreign made - so everything in construction could be diffrent. Foreign made items could be very similar to each other ( but are not identical ).

                    By the way; time , after time I'm trying to find in net any photos of pants you still reffering to without any result ( those m26 pants you still writing about looks like non existing since there is no trace of any in net).

                    Comment

                      #25
                      Originally posted by anmarlodz View Post
                      I guess you see something which is not existing , when you writing that those are swiss re-worked pants .
                      Then please show me existing proof that there is anything dutch about them.

                      Originally posted by anmarlodz View Post
                      First of all ; you comapring blue/black pants with fieldgrey pants ( and ath they same time writing about similiraties in wool ).
                      I already wrote that I used those older ordnance trousers for comparison as I haven't found any good, detailed pictures of trousers from the time frame I would place them in (Ord. 14 - Ord. 26). The swiss started using fieldgrey (which is and has been a shade of blue-grey with very little green) with the ordnance of 1914. The similarities in wool I wrote about was in comparison with my swiss army greatcoat and that was spot on!

                      Originally posted by anmarlodz View Post
                      Second; you comapring photos made with flesh with photos made without flesh in daylight ( which makes diffrence in perception of the wool and details etc. )
                      On the contrary, the first pictures of Grubhys trousers feature a blue background which makes us perceive them as more green than they actually are for lack of contrast. The detail pictures of the buttons and hook for example give us a better impression of the actual colour of the wool, and to my eyes, that colour is the typical swiss blue-gray that also shows in the pics of my overcoat.

                      Originally posted by anmarlodz View Post
                      Third; you writing about similiraties using 'parts' widely used in whole Europe at that time - mostly in civilain market but also often in military ( for example you writing that the use of the hook in waist writing it is typical for swiss army - than I can write that very similar hook was used in soviet pants also in the same place on waist line - so using your logic those pants must be soviet than ).
                      Did I write that the hooks were a unique feature to swiss trousers alone? I wrote that they are ALSO typical for swiss trousers, and I made that statement, of course, with all the other similarities they share with swiss trousers in mind. The dutch trousers in the link I postet also feature those hooks, now using the logic you falsely credit me with, they must be soviet too then!

                      Originally posted by anmarlodz View Post
                      Fourth; you trying to skip the most important diffrencies in construction of pants, focusing on only on those parts/similiraties important to your theory ( for example you completely skip the lack of watch pocket or diffrences of waist construction at back).
                      Of course I focus on the most obvious similarities at hand. What, until now, has everyone else here done to proof their theory of a dutch origin, other than just making claims without backing them with anything?
                      The lack of a watch pocket is an issue, but it isn't the hardest task to get rid of such a pocket, looking at how conveniently placed it is, right in the seam between the waistband and trouser legs.
                      I'm amazed you even needed to mention the differences in back construction, even factory made german trousers had a lot of differences there, mostly depending on the size of the trousers and the intent to leave as little scraps as possible of the cloth roll. They came with two tapering seams in the back (like the old ordnance trousers from my link), some even had 4 tapering seams in the back and then there were trousers that didn't have any tapering seams in the back, like Grubhys trousers show. The way that the scraps were sewn into the back that formed the split tail for mounting braces also differed on most occasions, so the differences in construction there is no surprise to me.

                      Originally posted by anmarlodz View Post
                      The most important; those are not german made but foreign made - so everything in construction could be diffrent. Foreign made items could be very similar to each other ( but are not identical ).
                      With all the comparing and explaining I've done until now, why is it still so unbelievable that those are just reworked swiss trousers? What do you base your 'foreign made' statement upon, are there any comparable pieces or any features that support your theory? If there is no proof that those trousers were worn by a german soldier or were intended to be used by german forces, then why should this piece be presented as such?

                      Originally posted by anmarlodz View Post
                      By the way; time , after time I'm trying to find in net any photos of pants you still reffering to without any result ( those m26 pants you still writing about looks like non existing since there is no trace of any in net).
                      I did a long and hard seach myself to no avail. I also failed to find any good pictures of textbook dutch WW2 trousers on the net, but that doesn't mean that they didn't exist.

                      @Grubhy
                      In your thread on the Uniforms Table I saw a picture of your trousers that show what appears to be a gray lining fabric sewn into the inside of the crotch, can you please provide a detailed picture of that spot?

                      Comment

                        #26
                        Don't know if noticed that , person who , realy might know something about dutch militaria , already stated that those:

                        "Nice trousers made with Dutch materials and loosely made after a Dutch pattern. Not converted and a nice period pair, nothing swiss! Would be a nice match with this tunic "

                        in other words legit pants made in ducth pattern.

                        I do belive in Frederik knowledge in this topic, more than yours, sorry.

                        Would be great to get opinion more, about those pants, from someone who collect dutch militaria, and would be able to confirm or denay dutch provenance of those pants ( or at least wool ).

                        Comment

                          #27
                          Hello Again,

                          comparsion of the Dutch wool on two different pics: -M40 infantry boards executed form Dutch wool. Now the boards looks more bluish. That how BLEND works.

                          Please note nap's texture.

                          https://fjm44.com/product/rayon-pipe...ood-condition/

                          d_b.jpg

                          DWT_9.jpg

                          Comment

                            #28
                            Green or blue green. Depends on light:

                            D10.jpg

                            D12.jpg

                            Comment

                            Previous 1 2 template Next

                            Users Viewing this Thread

                            Collapse

                            There are currently 5 users online. 0 members and 5 guests.

                            Most users ever online was 10,032 at 08:13 PM on 09-28-2024.

                            Working...
                            X