Question about Turkistan armshields, their wear and some speculation..???

[Zauberflöte]

Three different patterns of National sleeve insignia were introduced for wear on the right upper sleeve.
(1) The first pattern was introduced in autumn 1942.
(2) The second pattern was issued in September 1943.
(3) The third pattern was issued in mid-1944.


My question:

When it comes to analyzing period photographs, it appears that primarily men in the Turkestan Legion wear the first pattern shield, while the 2nd pattern shield (white arrow on red-blue background) seems to have be mainly worn by men belonging to the 162. Turkistan Division. Is this mere coincidence, just due to the many variations and mixing-up so common within the Eastern Legions? Or is there perhaps indeed a difference to whom it was issued; could therefore indeed the 2nd design have been the official emblem of the Turkistan division?

If that is the case, could it than also be that the Mosque shields (the 1st and 3rd pattern) were actually only intended to be worn by the Turkman battalions, which were moved from Central-Asia to France in 1943? Period photos seem to show that indeed only the 1st design shield is worn in that area (France) and in that particular period (1943-1944).

I would be very happy to learn about other opnions and when possible, even more so backed up with photos to subscribe or disagree with the above speculations.

Thank you.

F.

[Zauberflöte]

No one that can help me by charing his point of view??

Pretty please..

Thank you

[Dennis S]

Here are some fantastic photos taken from the book "Deutsche truppen in Italien"
Volume II . These photos came from two photography studios in Reggio Emilia (bologna) area between September 1943 and April 1945 . The photos are of German cadre and eastern volunteers. They were members of the 162 Infanterie Division . I believe it was comprised of Turkestan, Georgian and Azerbaijan and a reserve battalion of Armenian.

The book's the photos were taken from is part of a three series set . They are Italian books with English references and subs. The photos below are part of the second volume dedicated to the soldiers of the RSI (Italian Social Republic)and the Turkistan Division.

The first volume is named " The last Garrison" and the third is dedicated to the LAH
Of the Waffen SS.

I hope this helps

[Dennis S]

Eastern Troop , I have visited one of the studios where the photos were taken and the older Italian locals referred to them as Mongols in Italian.

[Zauberflöte]

Thank you Dennis.

You could not have known, but actually I'm aiding the publisher of these very same books you refer to and a companian of him, with the publication -due to be published this summer- coping with the 162. Turkistan Division in Italy. Hence the question that has risen by me, studying the different Turkmenistan volunteers and their arm shields.

And you are correct, these three volumes are fantastic, actually I started a promotional thread about them about a year ago.


Best
Frederik

[Dennis S]

More German cadre or at Least non asiatic members.

Panzer truppen.

[Dennis S]

Ok Fred , I won't post anymore since I'm sure you have seen these.

[Dennis S]

Fred in reference to your question about the mosque shield the photo on page 180 appears to be a non Turkistani wearing one . Do you mean also included to be worn by its battalion German cadre.

[Zauberflöte]

Fred in reference to your question about the mosque shield the photo on page 180 appears to be a non Turkistani wearing one . Do you mean also included to be worn by its battalion German cadre.

Correct; it's very likely this photo was not taken in Italy or at least the use of this mosque shield was not as widespread as with the troops serving in f.e. France at the same time.