Infantry Waffenrock - Opinions Please

[Johnny R]

I agree on the embroidered tabs, they are not that rare, I would say about half of the privately tailored waffenrocks for EM/NCO have them. They are more attractive and were popular especially for NCOs. Regulations stated that the cuff tabs also had to be embroidered if the tabs were on the jacket.

[soldon]

Greetings Everyone,
Thanks for the comments, it kind of brings the piece more in focus for me. Summing up - the common wisdom is the tunic and the insignia are original, however the eagle is the correct one, but may or may no be a replacement.
From what I read the eagles on waffenrocks were always hand stitched on, my question why when the private soldier became a NCO he received litzen for his collars and shoulder tabs which was all machine stitched on. Why didn't they machine stitch the eagle on?
Thanks for the help.

[Johnny R]

I am pretty sure the eagle was added post War. All the wool trim is gone and it is poorly applied.

Eagles were machine sewn through the lining during the War but most original examples are finely hand sewn. Yours look s to me like a post war restoration.

Bullion Eagles and tabs etc were bought individually and probably often chosen by the owner, we know this because many survive with price tags on the back of the eagle. You also will see collar tabs and cuff tabs hand sewn on. That is a myth that they will always be machine sewn.

[Mark_K]

The quality of application of the collar tresse, plus that on the cuffs, makes me think this is a tailor-made tunic rather than an issued 'kammerock'. Do not worry too much about the lack of a tailor's label. Some tailors put large and fancy labels into their tunics, but this was not always the case. Your tunic may once have had a label in the inside chest pocket, showing the name of the tailor and the name of the soldier, but these are often removed if a family is selling a tunic. They may want to keep the label as a souvenir, or to remove their name from a 'nazi' item.

Regulations said that all tailor-made uniform items should be inspected and stamped with 'gepruft' (and the unit identification number), but as we all know, rules and regulations are not always obeyed 100%. You will see plenty of genuine old waffenrocks that lack such a stamp, and some have faded over the past 70 years so you can hardly see them.

The bullion collar patches would have been available at military tailors shops, as a fancier version of the 'flat' silver collar patches that were put on standard-issue waffenrocks. That would go perfectly with your tunic being a tailor-made example, but - obviously - collar tabs can be changed and re-applied through the years.

This is just my personal impression, but inset silver tresse on shoulder-boards, with an even gap between the tresse and the piping, seems to be a feature of early-made shoulderboards. As time passed, the tresse seems to have been applied so that it was next to the piping, a practice that was continued through the war years to the end.

The eagle does seem heavily trimmed, but it might be the original eagle for this tunic. At the end of the war, the Allies issued a directive that all swastika insignia should be removed from uniforms, and there have been many cases of removed eagles being found in the top pockets of old tunics. If this eagle was a bit moth-eaten round the edges, that could explain why it was trimmed before it was put back on. It certainly does not look like a fake.

It would not be unusual to find all insignia on a tailor-made item to be sewn on by hand, and particularly bullion breast eagles on officers' tunics or on waffenrocks.

You can find the history of the 87th Infanterie Regiment here:

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...enter/IR87.htm

This is a nice tunic, and I hope you enjoy owning it.

All the best,

Mark

[Hofstetter]

The quality of application of the collar tresse, plus that on the cuffs, makes me think this is a tailor-made tunic rather than an issued 'kammerock'. Do not worry too much about the lack of a tailor's label. Some tailors put large and fancy labels into their tunics, but this was not always the case. Your tunic may once have had a label in the inside chest pocket, showing the name of the tailor and the name of the soldier, but these are often removed if a family is selling a tunic. They may want to keep the label as a souvenir, or to remove their name from a 'nazi' item.

Regulations said that all tailor-made uniform items should be inspected and stamped with 'gepruft' (and the unit identification number), but as we all know, rules and regulations are not always obeyed 100%. You will see plenty of genuine old waffenrocks that lack such a stamp, and some have faded over the past 70 years so you can hardly see them.

The bullion collar patches would have been available at military tailors shops, as a fancier version of the 'flat' silver collar patches that were put on standard-issue waffenrocks. That would go perfectly with your tunic being a tailor-made example, but - obviously - collar tabs can be changed and re-applied through the years.

This is just my personal impression, but inset silver tresse on shoulder-boards, with an even gap between the tresse and the piping, seems to be a feature of early-made shoulderboards. As time passed, the tresse seems to have been applied so that it was next to the piping, a practice that was continued through the war years to the end.

The eagle does seem heavily trimmed, but it might be the original eagle for this tunic. At the end of the war, the Allies issued a directive that all swastika insignia should be removed from uniforms, and there have been many cases of removed eagles being found in the top pockets of old tunics. If this eagle was a bit moth-eaten round the edges, that could explain why it was trimmed before it was put back on. It certainly does not look like a fake.

It would not be unusual to find all insignia on a tailor-made item to be sewn on by hand, and particularly bullion breast eagles on officers' tunics or on waffenrocks.

You can find the history of the 87th Infanterie Regiment here:

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...enter/IR87.htm

This is a nice tunic, and I hope you enjoy owning it.

All the best,

Mark

Well said Mark

[Fred Green]

Greetings All,

soldon, Here are a couple of other examples of collar tabs and cuff bars. The first picture is of a set of issue, a set of private purchase(unfinished ) ,and a set of officer cavalry cuff bars.

The second shot is a close up of the issue set.

[Fred Green]

Again, some more close-ups! First of the private purchase NCO set(unfinished) and next is the officers set.

[Fred Green]

Some more examples. Fisrt is a post 1936 set of private purchase collar tabs and cuff bars for a signaller. The second photo are 4 different examples of field artillery collar tabs(1 officer, 2 private purchase em, and 1 issue em, Left to Right)

[WW2-Collector]

Fred thanks for the show! Very informative.

[soldon]

Special thank you to Johnny R, Mark K, Fred Green, indeed everyone,
For your help on this - posts, links, pictures and cogent informative replies and time. I've learnt a lot, so much in fact, on Saturday evening at the local Militaria Collectors Club monthly meeting (the last of 2012) I was so puffed up with newly acquired Waffenrock knowledge, I gave myself a early Christmas present, bought another Waffenrock.
Best Wishes

[MikeP]

I saw dozens of these out of Germany in the 60s

99% had no eagle or had the swastika clippled off.

Original eagles were cheap-hard part was getting them sewn realistically.

No room for anything but professional work on this type uniform.