Denim Panzer Wrap for Opinion

[Mike Davis]

Prior to all the fake HBT/mouse grey wraps flooding the market, every original HBT or mouse grey wrap I knew of, never had the zig zag stitching on the back of the collar and were marked in a different place.

You have a good eye for detail - and a good memory Jim. I pulled a mouse grey set from the rack to compare details, and indeed, the example does not have zig zag backed collar and markings are in a different place. The national emblem is also positioned differently. Different makers? Thoughts?

[djpool]

I remember seeing fake HBT wraps in Frankfurt at a show in the Fall of 1986 or 87, I think it was 1987. They had RBN stamps but the cloth was odd and they were brand spanking new.

I cannot remember the collars etc. and can not say if this is one of them, meaning the primary uniform in the thread but it looks like one from what I can remember. I seem to recall a lot of them have the same RBN #.

I did not say your tunic was in one in the book but the fabric shown in the books and which Derka made reference to some questionable uniforms like this in the HSC books. I know there are fake items, restored items and fantasy pieces in many reference books and militaria magazine.

I may be incorrect but I read Mr. Singer's comments as questioning the likelihood that is was altered and not worn as "entertaining doubts" on it being real. I am of course only laity and may be smitten by his wrath but I will take a shot at glory by interpreting his words.

hi John,

You could be correct about fake wraps in Germany during 86-87. I didn't get back into collecting until a few years later. I was in Germany and went to every show big or small. I saw 2 good HBT wraps (private collector) and 1 other HBT wrap from a dubious seller until the French fakes hit the market. Its strange that folks like B.N. Singer, Mike Pruett, George Petersen or Bob Edwards who specialize in Panzer have never seen a similar piece. Certainly the ones you saw weren't altered like mine.

Years ago I had a discussion about a commercial ski jacket at the thread below.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ght=ski+jacket

The fabric has a very similar weave and feel to the wrap I have.

Here are some pics.

[djpool]

A comparison of the weave

[derka]

re,

Jim has good memory.
someone remember this one wich was on estand ?







and opinions given, particulary on colar reverse zig-zag stiching ?

regards
derka

[djpool]

Now the color is a grey green which seems logical for a field item. I haven't found an exact match yet but I did compare the colors to my GJ windjacket. The weave is different on the windjacket and the colors are too. But even on the same windjacket there are differences in color.

[djpool]

You have a good eye for detail - and a good memory Jim. I pulled a mouse grey set from the rack to compare details, and indeed, the example does not have zig zag backed collar and markings are in a different place. The national emblem is also positioned differently. Different makers? Thoughts?

mike,

I would love to see some pics of yours. I'm having nightmares over all these once rare, now common HBT/Denim wraps with zig zag stitching. I don't know what the truth is anymore. Pretty soon my HBT wrap without zig zag stitching will become a fake. Jim

[BDE]

RE: Hello

I had a tan cotton set similar to the ones posted that originated from George Peterson, I ended up returning them to the seller. I cannot post pictures but if anyone wants to see them i can email them for posting.

Thanks
Brian

[Mike Davis]

mike,

I would love to see some pics of yours. I'm having nightmares over all these once rare, now common HBT/Denim wraps with zig zag stitching. I don't know what the truth is anymore. Pretty soon my HBT wrap without zig zag stitching will become a fake. Jim

Sent you a PM Jim.

[djpool]

I had a tan cotton set similar to the ones posted that originated from George Peterson, I ended up returning them to the seller. I cannot post pictures but if anyone wants to see them i can email them for posting.

Thanks
Brian

Brian my e mail is

djpool@cox.net

WR Jim

[djpool]

re,

Jim has good memory.
someone remember this one wich was on estand ?

From a distance they look great, but the details are different. Certainly we can talk variation, different manufacturers etc. I judge all these wraps with zig stitching, to wraps I handled prior to 1997-98 (when the French fakes came out.) If it doesn't meet the same standards, I have a problem with it. Certainly not a great way to judge an item, but these fakes are too good for my simple mind.WR Jim







and opinions given, particulary on colar reverse zig-zag stiching ?

regards
derka

[maui]

panzer wrapper

Hi, interesting thread, here are a few shots of an lah wrapper with a zigzap collar backing and a cut similiar to Luca's .......maui

[maui]

zigzag

a

[maui]

eagle

a

[maui]

ct

a

[Johnny R]

These are tough

Wow, I have a Carhardt jacket made out of the same type green canvas duck I bought two years ago. Amazing!

I think most of these unusual ones have to be seen and felt to determine if they have a shot, mosts the fake HBTs I have seen have the same weave but the cloth is flimsy and soft, it does not have the starch like sheen you see on real HBT before it is washed out and faded.

I had a green cotton wrapper and pants identical to the one in HSC book German Uniforms. I know that was post war made and suspect the one in the book is the same kind.

Did you figure out a date and origin for the Ski jacket? I would guess 1930s but this style waist ski coat was also in style during the 1950s.

Need to hear from someone that remembers seeing things like this in the 1970s or has a vet pick-up, piece from a known old collection etc. before the repro started falling out of trees.