Identification Flag

[Perry Floyd]

Thought I would share this, it's the first one I've had. I allmost allways get a regular NSDAP flag when I purchase one from the vets family but today I had a nice surprise
I purchased the from the vets wife near the area where I got the SS banner. This one's in very good shape and has holes to tie it down in all 4 corners, across the hood of a truck/puma or panzer..
It's about 3 1/2 ft. by 8 1/2 ft.

[Perry Floyd]

2

[Perry Floyd]

3

[Perry Floyd]

And the guy that brought it back, since someone's allready PM'd me saying it's a fake...you gotta watch those 75 year old women..

I'll post a few more items he brought back in the uniform forum, hopefully they're not fake either.....

[J Melvin]

I'll admit that I am the one that privated Perry that I didn't like the flag. I've never seen one in usage in a period photo of vehicle identification flags on any German vehicle. If someone has one, I'd love to see the photo. I usually won't express my concerns in an open forum but will tend to private the individual if I think that I know him well enough through here to do so. It is not my nature to tear someone's item up on an open forum based simply on photos. I'd much rather discuss it directly with them. Comments that voice a concern about a piece, whether right or wrong, can destroy a perfectly legitimate piece. I've had this done to me and therefore won't subject others to the same treatment unless I ask for it.

Perry, if you want to post my private message to you, you are welcome to.

[JaimeH]

There is one of these for sale on a popular vendors site.

I to have never seen one in a war dated photo.

[J Melvin]

Jaime, I saw it and I would say that my comments relate to it as well.

[Perry Floyd]

I purchased this flag from Elsie Salmon, wife of the late Clarence Salmon, this I can easily prove. His servece in Europe is easily proved (his # is in the top right corner of the pass) Here are two more items that were sent home with this flag...
In todays era there is no more of a solid source, I really don't know what else to say. The margin for error is as good as you can ask for in todays era..

[Perry Floyd]

2

[Perry Floyd]

Also, all three items plus some medals were sent back together.....are the other two fake?

[keifer kahn]

I think it is a bit premature to reject this flag as a reproduction simply because there arent any period photos.
I do agree that a period photo would be great but we must remember that none of us have seen every period photo ever taken.
If the materials and construction are correct then i would use that to validate its authenticity way before writing it off as a reproduction based on lack of photgraphic evidence.

This type of cross is very similar to the type painted on aircraft and vehicles.Why does it seem strange that they wouldnt make a flag in the same format?

regards keifer

[Perry Floyd]

Well, it's no use getting into a pissing contest over it. I know the circimstances of this flag and the other pieces, I have no doubt where it came from (which I have shown), fell absolutely 100% comfortable with the age and construction and believe that flag to be 100% original....
In this era I obtained it from the most reliable source where the margin for error is the least..

[Bill D.]

These Balkan Cross identification flags were the subject of a thread previously, which I unfortunately have not been able to locate with the "search" tool.

While they have been discussed as repros (and I'm sure there ARE copies of them around, since everything has been copied), my own opinion is that they were undoubtedly made during the Third Reich. I think that this example is a superbly documented original piece.

My opinion is based on the fact that in thirty years of collecting, I have seen a number of these flags that were brought back by veterans. All of them have been in virtually mint, unused condition.

I believe that these flags were developed by the military, probably very late in the war, as an alternative to the swastika identification flags. I think that it is in Davis' German insignia book that he shows a photo of a member of the Todt Organization who was captured in Normandy. The photo shows that this German had removed the swastka armband from his uniform, leaving only the "Organization Todt" portion of the armband in place. The reason was that the swastika was associated by the Allies with political functionaries.

I think the same rationale may have well led to the creation of these identification flags, which used the military emblem of the Balkan Cross, rather than the more political swastika, in order to prevent the enemy from assuming that vehicles displaying the flag were "Nazi" as opposed to military.

I believe that since all of the original examples that I have seen are virtually mint, the flags either never made it out to the field from the storehouses, or the entire idea was thought to be too "politically incorrect", especially after the military tried to kill Hitler. The idea that the military might use a different flag to "distance itself" from the Nazi Party might have been unacceptable. For either of these reasons, or maybe for some reason that I am unaware of, I just don't believe that the flags ever made it into the field, accounting both for their constantly excellent condition, as well as for the absence of any photos of them in use in the field.

But I have no doubt as to their originality, and I think that this one is a great, documented example.

[Perry Floyd]

Thanks Bill,
The post is there as I quoted Bill Shea's experiance with these flags. Since I aquired this one I have talked to dealers who in their younger days actually done the picking themselves and everyone I've talked to has purchased this style of flag directly from a veteran source, Bill mentioned he had purchased about 5 of these flags directly from the veteran. Several senoir collectors that have experiance buying from vets or their immediate family have purchased these flags from that source....

You either have a case where that many people are lieing about their purchases which some are very respected and honest...
All these veterans purchased the same piece post-war at a gunshow and have fooled all these buyers throughout the U.S. using the same type piece...

I think the collectors that feel these are repo or fantasy are greatly misinformed and are a spreader of false information...
Never have I encountered such a piece with years of solid vet linkage dismissed as fantasy...

[George Stimson]

Perry,

Does this flag have a seam running down the center of it, lengthwise?