SS PPK - any others close to this number?

[robert]

Got this recently at a civil war show.

it walked into a gun shop without a mag a few years back.

there's a number of 714xxx with numbered slides, and one 715xxx a little higher than this according to some friends.
the cut off is around 330xxx where they all went to numbered slides right?

[robert]

another picture

notice anything unusual about this one?

[HENRY BUCKI]

why would their be two different K s ? or am i looking at it wrong

[MP41]

IMO, the numbering on the slide has been added post war by someone attempting to create an RSHA/SS PPk.

Sorry, but this one is not good IMO.

Matt

[crowback]

comparison --- the 3s and the K are very different.

[Pacelli2]

Couldn’t it have been wartime applied by some unknown organisation

[ejp]

ppk

by the way,
this is a .22 cal. gun

[ejp]

22 cal. ppk

I forgot to mention that there were very few .22 cal. ppk guns produced that were eagle/n commercial proofed except a batch at the of the war in the 430,000 s/n range.

[robert]

a little history and info to clear things up (or perhaps muddy the waters even more?)

This gun walked into a local gunshop maybe 10 or 15 years ago. I'll check the exact time when i have the chance. Traveling now. the guy that bought it worked there and it was a walk in. He didn't pay much for it then - probably between 300 and 500 if that much. He kept it all these years and shot it some and enjoyed it as a accurate and fun little 22 kit gun. Prices and values rose and he decided to sell it. He sold it to me all these years later for what a 22 would go for these days or a little less. I didn't even notice the number on the slide being in the range of SS guns until a few days later.
To me the numbers looked factory original. I guess i would have to scanthe slide and compare it to other PPKs and PPs with flat topped 3s in their serial numbers. as to why the frame # is a round three and the slide has a flat topped 3, I can only guess. There is another SS gun about 80 numbers off and another 22 tabulated 10 or 20 numbers below this I believe.

Having seen the gun in hand, I have no doubt that the numbers were applied at the factory. as to weather they were applied to the slide at the same tie they were applied to the frame, i find curious. if someone has the other 22 ppk near this one or the other ss gun a few numbers higher I'd like to hear from you.

also there are a number of ss PPKs in the 314xxxk range and if someone has one of those it might relate to this one.

clearly all the tabulated ss guns i have pictures of have the same font on the slide as the frame, but perhaps this falls in a transitional range? And I think thats why there are forums and discussions of the curiousities and anomalies of these historical artifacts we explore.

I will note that I asked the previous owner if the gun came with that mag and he recalled that it came in without a magazine and he bought it for a good price because of that and later had to fine one for it.

And i also wish to say that I truly enjoy these all gentlemanly discussions between the numerous curious and erudite members of the forum, and view them sort of like the dinner discussion in the movie THE TIME MACHINE between all the scientists before Rod Taylor sets off on his adventure. Please always feel free to give me your thoughts on any of my posts freely and with no hesitation.

Frannkly i did not notice the difference in the fonts when I posted and thanks for the heads up on that.

[bmg17a1]

It is not just the lower case ‘k’ and the ‘3’ that are different, but all of them are. The font shapes of the numbers of the entire slide number are different which suggests to me that it was an un-numbered slide that was numbered and assembled to the lower at a differen time than the manufacture of the frame and at a different shop with dissimilar stamps. The small ‘k’ is a completley different stamp entirely, in font and design and clearly more heavily struck. Aside from the font, the shapes of the slide stamp numbers is also completely different leaving an impession very different than the frame stampings.
This is not a minor anomaly and will be very difficlt to explain away with any credibility for the gun’s alleged prevenance to be regarded as genuine, in my opinion.
Looking forward to an explanation.

[phild]

I can say the following with full confidence of fact:

It not uncommon on many German military firearms for the frame number to use a slightly different number style than the other locations. The rounded vs straight top 3 is a typical difference. This is common on P.08 and many makes of k98k for example. I have no clue if this is found on slide numbered Walthers.

I think that the slide number on SS contract Walthers was added at factory per SS request, but in other cases with other guns including some Walthers a slide number external was added by the police to police procured arms and those will never match factory style exactly. No idea if they could be the case here but I believe strongly that the slide number is period and original to 3rd Reich use

[robert]

here's a ppk with a flat 3 a little later

Saw this one on Tom's Legacy-Col site. a few thousand numbers later with a flat 3. the k looks similar too but will have to wait till i get home to look at this further and compare in photoshop. any other pics out there near this one?

the first question is are the numbers on the slide typical of walther numbering. We will have to see.

i remember an expert saying a Waffen PP with 2 matching number mags was wrong because the 7s had serifs on mine and he pulled out a mag with no serifs to prove it. It was at a napca show and i walked over to Shayne's mag stash (of 20 or 40 numbered walther mags, PP, PPK and P38) and found both serif and non serif factory numbered mags. The font of the numbers on my mag matched many of the other factory mags perfectly.

i've heard of numbers on p38 mags being fakes, "I see tons of them" said one guy form the NE but have never seen any myself - at least none that were convincing in the slightest. The mag numbers were pressed in exactly and precisely by a machine and would be hard, very hard to fake without the pressing machine.

I will bring this one to the SOS or MAX if anyone wants to see in person.

[ed flisak]

Ss ppk

In my opinion the "k" on the slide was not done by the factory. This was a post war stamp that was applied to add SS/RSHA value to the gun. If you look at the depth of the serial number stamp compared to the "k" stamp...they were not done at the same time.
Ed

[Alan Smith]

Have any other .22 Walther PPK's been reported over the years with a similar non-factory serial numbered slide?


Given the wide variety of police, military and quasi-military purchasers of the Walther PP and PPK pistols during the pre-Nazi and Nazi time frames, I'm certainly open to the suggestion that the added slide SN is of the WWII-era. The question, of course, would be to attempt to identify the specific organization that added the slide number (and/or on whose behalf the slide SN may have been added).


IMO, merely because the slide may have been WWII-era numbered to match the pistol's SN does not automatically mean that the .22 caliber PPK at issue was procured by the RSHA ("SS"). Also, because the pistol is .22 caliber (and not of a military/police service caliber such as the .32 caliber RSHA pistols), I'd tend to think that it was procured as a training pistol.


Interesting discussion . . . . .

[Johnny Peppers]

The numbers appear to have been applied with a proper roll die, and do not have the appearance of being applied individually.