Tyrolean Schutzen Verein

[Bill Grist]

Denny

Thanks Bill. I'm sorry the pictures really don't do this rifle justice. You've been collecting for a long time - have you ever encountered one of these?

I have seen two marked the way yours is marked, and several others with no markings.. Yours is a very nice example and one to be proud of, thanks for showing it... BILL

[JoeW]

Denny, my article was in either the August or September 1999 issue of AutoMag. Dieter's article was in the August 2002 issue of DWJ. In my files I found a rather shocking rubbing of another Wehrmanngewehr: 20765. Now that you have recovered your composure, I am sorry to write that I do not have the owner of that rifle recorded. I also have recorded another example at #20761. If you wish, I will try and scan the rubbing if you have some disbelief of a consecutive rifle number.

[dag001]

Joe, yer killin' me! In 50 years of collecting, I have never been fortunate enough to own anything consecutively numbered. If you ever run across the owner's name, please let me know. I might consider offering my first-born child in trade.


Thank you for your input - now I'm gonna go curl up in the corner and bang my head against the wall!

[leondes]

Hi Denny,

Here is the link to pictures of my rifle.

http://lmd-militaria.com/page560.html

Regards, Leon

[JoeW]

I will scan the rubbing this evening for you as it will show the uneven application of the number stamps under the T.ST.V. logo. I own a pair of consecutive numbered police accepted Walther Sportmodels in .22 caliber. What is even more remarkable is that they were acquired from the same dealer (a well known dealer in the Cincinnati area deceased for some time) over a period of four years. He sold me one to me after acquiring it and not checking that he indeed owned the consecutive numbered gun. This was apparent after he sold me the second rifle during his collection liquidation.

[JoeW]

Leon, I have a .22 trainer with a paper sticker on the underside of the butt-stock as your does, but it is worn too much to read. Yours is in great shape. It looks like your rifle was used in the 7. Landesschiessen in Innsbruck which was held from 2. to 16 July 1944. I don't know whether your rifle was just used in the contest or was a prize awarded there. I have a nice set of shooting medals for Police Oblt. Schwinger who participated in that particular contest and was awarded the Landesmeisterzeichen in Gold with oakleaves for competition with the Wehrmanngewehr. I think it is great when we can tie such different collectibles together in this manner.

[leondes]

Hi JoeW,

Thanks for the information. I will update my web site with it, if you don't mind. I had also misread the date. It looked like "Jun" to me.

Best Regards, Leon

[dag001]

Joe,

If time permits, I would love to see the rubbing. I still haven't gotten over the shock of your previous post. I probably won't be able to sleep tonight.
I'm going to try to dig out that issue of Automag tonight. I haven't belonged for a few years, but should have that one.

Leon,

Great pictures of your rifle. I wish my pictue-taking capabilities were as good as yours. I also am very impressed with your resin-stocked K43 and your duv43 G41 with the MG13 magazine.
A few years ago, I submitted my duv43 serial number to Claus Espolt's web-site and was surprised to learn that it was the highest known serial number - #6496h.
Denny

[JoeW]

Denny, I forgot that I connot post as I am not a paying member. I will send you a scan of the carbon rubbing of the other Wehrmanngewehr for you to post. Notice how the last digit is slightly off line as in yours. I wonder if they used an advancing serial number stamp or a block with individual number stamps? In either case, the last digit was hanging. Leon, the references I used in my article (a German militaria magazine) contained some excellent photos of shooting records from the July 1944 contest in Innsbruck.

[JoeW]

Leon, I pulled out the trainer. It is a Gustloff KKW #236 202 marked with the police E/C stamp. And it has the paper Landesschiessen Innsbruck tag on the underside of the stock. As I wrote, mine is worn and missing parts but I can make out the beginning of the date "4.-1x xxxxx". From the militaria magazine article I find that the shooting contest in 1943 began on the 4th of July. That was the date of my tag. But I cannot fathom how a police accepted .22 trainer made it into a shooting match in Innsbruck.

[dag001]

I will send you a scan of the carbon rubbing of the other Wehrmanngewehr for you to post. Notice how the last digit is slightly off line as in yours. I wonder if they used an advancing serial number stamp or a block with individual number stamps? In either case, the last digit was hanging. Leon, the references I used in my article (a German militaria magazine) contained some excellent photos of shooting records from the July 1944 contest in Innsbruck.

Posting this for Joe!

[leondes]

Hi JoeW,

Very interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

Regards, Leon

[dag001]

#20765 & #20766

Here is something you don't see every day! Two consecutively numbered WWII era rifles. And rather rare versions at that! Thanks to Joe Wotka, I was able to meet the owner of #20765 at the SoS and take these pictures. Now it's just a matter of who sells first! #20765 is the rifle at the top.

[dag001]

Thanks again Joe.

[benutzer]

T.st.v

These tie in with KKW .22 rifles and Walther PPs with similar markings or insigina. Dieter Marschall published a nice article on the PPs and I also did one on the Standschuetzen Verband Tirol-Vorarlberg in the magazine AutoMag, monthly journal of the National Automatic Pistol Collectors Association.

Hi, I'm from Austria, T.ST.V means Tiroler Standschützen Verband. Tirol and Vorarlberg are two different states in Austria, like California and Texas so its not Tirol-Vorarlberg !! The eagle is the symbole of Tirol, displayed on the Tirol flag, too.

best regards Siegfried