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Baffled by this PP

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    Baffled by this PP

    First off, I would like to thank the regular contributors of this forum for their expertise with these firearms and their willingness to share it with the like of those of us who know relatively little. I am researching this pistol for a friend whose father is in poor health and looking to sell off part of his extensive militaria collection (So, be warned I may have lots of questions about other pieces too).

    Next, the Walther PP in question. Through this forum and a couple other resources, I have determined that this appears to be a PP whose serial # puts it in the 1940 mfg. range. I *think* it is a V4, according to the list Matt has pinned.

    Here's the rub...it is a 160xxxP serial number, but it has the "Eagle/N" proof mark on both the bolt and the slide, right below the ejection port. It also has an Eagle (no "N") mark forward on the slide, right side, near the muzzle. To add additional mud to the proverbial waters, the name "Otto Breiter" is engraved where the serial # would typically be on the right side of the slide and there is a small oval forward of the name which has been machined for some reason.

    Any clarification about this piece, including a fair value, would be greatly appreciated. From what my friend has passed on to me from his dad is that this piece has been in his collection for a few decades (although he couldn't recall how many since he bought it). The magazine has no plastic base on it, just the metal floorplate on the one mag it came with and no serial number stamped onto it (there is only a "0" on the back). It also has what appears to be a period holster with it, but there is no noticeable stamp of any kind I have found.

    I will attempt to attach some photos for you to help explain what I'm looking at. Thanks in advance for any clarification anyone can offer. I'd hate to screw his dad by selling this piece for much less than it is worth just because I am ignorant about it.

    #2
    I'll await some photos.
    Jim

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      #3
      Will do as soon as I can, James. From what I can tell so far, I can't post photos in-line here? I guess I will have to set up an online hosting account somewhere to upload them and then post a link.

      Comment


        #4




        If photos of other parts of the firearm or accoutrements are necessary, just let me know and I will do what I can.

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          #5
          The 160xxxp dose fall in the numbers of a RSHA, the slide needs to also have the SN. About where the name is give or take. The E/N is a bit odd. Pull the slide off and see if the last three digits of the SN are scratched inside match the frame use a light. My V2 PP has them inside and outside stamped.

          This is just a place to start with the info you have.

          Steve.

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            #6
            Can the engraved name be the dealer with the city name erased for some reason?
            i recently saw a similar one on eGun dealer marked in the same way. It was for a dealer in Switzerland and these markings are period applied, not modern.

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              #7
              The holster is post war Soviet manufacture for a Makarov.

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                #8
                A commerciallly sold PP during the Nazi era. This is speculative but the rounded box may have contained the original owners identification number that were later eradicated for some reason.
                I'd recommend field stripping the pistol to see if there are any other markings.
                Jim

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                  #9
                  Thanks guys. Now I guess I have to figure out how to take one of these down to check the inside of the slide. What a project this is becoming!

                  EDIT: Well, that was easier than I expected. I got the slide off, but there is nothing at all engraved inside of it. No numbers or anything. The bluing is still intact, so I see no evidence of anything being machined off. Now I am really baffled...
                  Last edited by The Dude; 08-08-2014, 02:52 PM.

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                    #10
                    It's there, not engraved. Just crudely scratched to aid in assembly following bluing. Visible through the ejection port. Look harder.

                    Steve Stepan
                    Author of : SS Walther PP/PPK
                    Identification & Documents

                    glenmoreresort@earthlink.net

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                      #11
                      The milled out area next to the engraved name looks to be the same method and location as that on Walther P4 pistols that were surplussed from W. German police use, milled to remove the police marking before civilian sale.

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                        #12
                        Sorry, but I took it apart again and the only scratches I see inside the slide are from me taking it down. Here is the best shot I could get of the interior of the slide...

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                          #13
                          Based on the limited details that appear in the pics I do not believe we have enough information to properly evaluate the subject PP. If an SS RSHA type 4 I have little faith in external slide numbers being contemporarily defaced and replaced with the name of the person it was issued to.

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                            #14
                            I spoke with the friend's father I'm trying to help here and got a little more info about this PP. I doubt it will help with this case, but it may assist some of you in future identifications.

                            He said he got the pistol from the son of the person whose name is engraved on it and that the oval machined forward of the engraved name was where Otto Breiter's party number (presumably Nazi party) was originally engraved.

                            If, by chance, that helps with anything on this, please let me know. If not, I hope it helps someone in the future if you find another with these unique features.

                            Now, it's off to research the markings on all of these Arisaka rifles he brought me...

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