P38 info needed

[tinmantis]

Hi again,
I've been offered a P38 from a guy who knew I was interested in ww2 'stuff'.
He knows more about it than me, but still not much! So I didn't really know how much to offer. (if anything)
If you read my other thread, you'll remember I'm European, and this is my first brush with 'real' guns, so...

He said it's a P38, red grips, low number, good condition. It's a 'CYC' but I think he meant CYG? It has a 'crown' stamp on it, and 4x nazi eagles. What I found interesting is that he has the capture papers, saying it was taken in Africa in 1945 (I think that may just be the date on the papers) from a tank commander. All the numbers match, and match to the papers too. No holster though, and no spare magazine.
Without seeing pics, what do you think so far?
any opinions will be helpful
best regards
Jon

[leondes]

Hi Jon,

The P.38 is likely a cyq. That is the secret code for Spreewerk which was 1 of 3 manufacturers of the P.38s. The serial numbers started with 1 and went through 10,000 then started over with 1a through 10,000a, etc. So, your gun may have a low serial number but if there is a letter suffix that info is important as to when the gun was made and to uniquely identify it. Spreewerk is the only maker that didn't stamp a date on the guns and no one seems to know why.

Capture papers, if original, add value to the group.

Hope this helps some.

Regards, Leon

[Douglas Jr.]

P-38

Jon,

I´m really sorry about your recent "gun disease" . Sorry to tell that, but it seems that they didn´t found a cure up to now, so you´ll have to stand still! But we are here to suport you!

Well, now let´s talk seriously. The P-38 is not a "CYC" or "CYG" but, in fact, a CYQ. It was the secret code to the Spreewerke, the third manufacturer of this kind of gun. The others were Walther ("ac" code) and Mauser ("byf" and, in late war, "svw" codes).

The Spreewerke P38s were the only among the three that didn´t bring the year of production. Usually, people make an estimatimation using the serial number (which was consecutive).

Concerining the "nazi eagles" we assume that they are the "Waffenamts" - german army inspection marks. The Spreewerke Waffenamts were Eagle/88, stamped on the frame (close to the serial number), slide (right side) and barrel. Another important thing is the matchng numbers - but it seems that you had already checked it. I have no clue about the "Crown", so I´ll let this for the others .

I don´t think that is possible that this gun was captured in Africa in 1945. The fighting over there finish in May 1943, when the Afrika Korps surrendered in Tunisia. Probably it is the issue date of the capture paper. But it is only a guess.

At last, but not the least, the same tips for the HSc apply with this one (finish, rifling, marks, etc.).

Hope it helps and feel free to any further questions.

Regards,

Douglas.

[Douglas Jr.]

Oops, I forgot to mention

Ooopss,

I forgot to mention: our co-moderator, Matt, wrote an very nice (and illustrated) article about the P-38 pistols to this site.

Please, check at:http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/fire...8/p38index.htm

All the best,

Douglas.

[P08]

I remember seeing a crown over N in Buxton's books. I'm not perfectly sure, but wouldn't that make the pistol a "civil" one i.e. not Wehrmacht supplied (Eagle over swastika)? Still I have no idea how a Crown over N is different to Eagle over N?

BTW Jon make sure to look at the magazine. It should have the same approval mark as the pistol. Spreewerke's Waffenamt mark was Eagle over 88.

[Douglas Jr.]

Proofs

I remember seeing a crown over N in Buxton's books. I'm not perfectly sure, but wouldn't that make the pistol a "civil" one i.e. not Wehrmacht supplied (Eagle over swastika)? Still I have no idea how a Crown over N is different to Eagle over N?

BTW Jon make sure to look at the magazine. It should have the same approval mark as the pistol. Spreewerke's Waffenamt mark was Eagle over 88.

Hi P08,

In fact, if I´m not mistaken, the Crowned N was used as commercial proof from sometime around 1910 up to 1935 or 1938. The Eagle/N succeded it as comercial proof sometime in the III Reich era (1935? 1938?). That is the diference as far as I know.

Douglas.