Deaths head marked luger holster

[Alan Smith]

George,

Great photos - thanks for sharing. Do you have any idea what units the personnel in the photos were part of?

Also, on the first photo - is there something around the soldier's neck in the collar area of his uniform? Looks like some sort of chain around his neck. I wonder if he is one of the "Field Police" soldiers and is wearing a gorget?

[GWA]

Alan, you are correct. The two Germans in the photo are identified as "SS Feldgendarmerie"

[Alan Smith]

As GWA pointed out - the holsters in the period photos are standard "Army" pattern holsters. However, I have seen plenty of army-type holsters that were used by the Weimar and/or Third Reich police: you can tell by the gun's serial number having been stamped on the right rear of the holster above where the "P.08" marking is often found. Also, depending on the time frame, police unit markings may be stamped on the holster. I feel confident that numerous other collectors on this forum have made similar observations.

I pass these remarks along because, in light of the other posts and GWA's photos, it sure looks like the original period "death's head" holster markings of this type are associated with SS field police use. Thus, the "police type" holster shown in this thread would (IMO) be consistent with the other bits of information we have on these markings.

Again, in my opinion the markings sure appear to have been on the holster in question for a very long time and I would tend to think they were applied at or around the time the holster was new, i.e. during WWII.

[phild]

I agree that many do not accept these markings as period, but for some collectors that have pulled these items directly from veterans 40-50+ years ago there is NO doubt that they existed....I personally have seen these from sources that cannot be questioned so the period photos posted only backs up what I already knew...still nice to see.

I know just as well that SS (W-SS, SS VT and SS TV) used police style holsters and have many photos showing this...including a series of Hitler's LAH escort Officer's wearing what are clearly police style holsters.

I am not convinced that the marking was confined or specifically related to SS feld police it may have been, but I believe that it is probably more related to SS TV and SS TK........equipment got moved around as did personnel so the holsters may have ended up in several SS formations.

[JoeW]

I agree that many do not accept these markings as period, but for some collectors that have pulled these items directly from veterans 40-50+ years ago there is NO doubt that they existed....I personally have seen these from sources that cannot be questioned so the period photos posted only backs up what I already knew...still nice to see.

I know just as well that SS (W-SS, SS VT and SS TV) used police style holsters and have many photos showing this...including a series of Hitler's LAH escort Officer's wearing what are clearly police style holsters.

I am not convinced that the marking was confined or specifically related to SS feld police it may have been, but I believe that it is probably more related to SS TV and SS TK........equipment got moved around as did personnel so the holsters may have ended up in several SS formations.

In at least two of Hoffmann's photo books are pictures of what has been refered to as "Hitler's LAH escort". But in reality, these SS men were part of his RSD bodyguard that carried police style holsters as most were of police background.

[Alan Smith]

Joe,

What you say about the Hoffman photos documenting Hitler's RSD bodyguard is really interesting, when you look at the original post and what it says about the U.S. veteran who brought the gun and holster back (i.e. service in the "Band of Brothers" 101 AB unit). Assuming the history of the gun/holster's origin is accurate, it seems like this particular soldier would probably have been at the "right place" at the "right time" to acquire items of RSD equipment, i.e. the Berchtesgaden area at war's end.

Your thoughts?

[Gene]

It is very well documented in dozens of published clear photos that the SS used "police" type P.08 holsters.

Yes, I know that. I was just identifying the holster.

[JoeW]

Well let's buy another.

http://cgi.ebay.com/WW2-1939-GERMAN-...52236662848355

There are no sharp lines on that stamp to break leather surface. Design produces broad pressure on the leather surface and not all old leather has a brittle surface.

Alan, there was an RSD contingent at Berchtesgaden, but the place had been bombed and cleaned out by the time the 101st arrived. So it wasn't acquired from an SS officer if no one was there. Just some thoughts.

[Harvey R Lipp]

Deaths head luger holster

Thanks to all who commented. I spent a couple of hours with the son of the vet and I have seen a few luger holsters. I knew the holster was a Police holster and it concerned me because I did not know the SS used police holsters
( that bit of news was great). The son new a lot about his fathers exploits and attendes the band of bronthers reunions. I am not an expert but I have seen a few repos and this is just to old and nothing appers out of the ordinary. I will show it to some people I know who have a lot of luger experience at the next few guns shows. I tend to take most sellers words with a grain of salt, but this just looked original. Once again thanks and any more comments will be appreciated. I will keep all updated from time to time as I find out more,

[phild]

In at least two of Hoffmann's photo books are pictures of what has been refered to as "Hitler's LAH escort". But in reality, these SS men were part of his RSD bodyguard that carried police style holsters as most were of police background.

That may well be the case, I'll defer to your knowledge on the exact origin of the formation, I know that Max Wuensche was one of the officers wearing the police style 08 holster and that he was detailed or assigned to the SS-Begleitkommando des Führers (roughly translates to the Fuhrer SS- Escort Command) during the period that I have seen him (and several others) wearing the police style holster. I can NOT tell if the holster that they are wearing has the TK impressed on it.

I have also seen the police style (again I can make out no Tk it may or may not have been there) in photos (a fair number) of W-SS officers from different divisions wearing them in the field well up into the war, so they were not only a SS "police thing".

[Harvey R Lipp]

Deaths head luger holster

I thought I had already left a thank you but it does not show. Any way thanks for all of your comments. I knew it was a police holster and that gave me one of my biggest concern. I did not know that the SS used police holsters, so that bit of information was very helpful and educational. I spent a couple of hours with the son of the vet and he seemed very geunine and sincer. I have been wrong about people before but I think this is the real item. He is going to provide me with a letter stating the backgound of the luger and holster, so we will see if I get the letter. I will keep looking and any further comments will be welcome. I will update information every so often. Once again thanks again.

[frundsberg]

The 4th Waffen SS division were the "POLIZEI" ,it make sense that police style holster with such stamp , but the major point is when the stamp was applied , during or post WW2.

[Harvey R Lipp]

Deaths head luger holster

I received the letter from the son of the 101st vet and he clearly states that he remembers the holster and gun as a young boy and that the holster and gun were captured in Eindhoven, Holland not Berchtesgarden.

[JoeW]

The 4th Waffen SS division were the "POLIZEI" ,it make sense that police style holster with such stamp , but the major point is when the stamp was applied , during or post WW2.

The date of application of the stamp is the critical point. But I think that the components of the SS-Polizei Division (new recruits, Ordnungspolizei units and Heer units) were assembled without their previous weapons that would have remained the property of the respective force from which they came. The new division was provided their own equipment, so finding a police issue holster in the division would be problematic.

[jotuntroll]

Very sceptic. Many items has come out of doubtful sources in east europe the last years . Also totenkopf stamped in metal, often with SS2 beneath.
It has appered on fieldshowels, holsters, binoculars etc.

Most WaA along with SS/RZM is located on the back of equipment, here it is portrated as a show off marking.