1943 P38 Holster and Mag

[dag001]

Thanks to everyone for the comments. I need to lessen my cost in the rig, so off to the estand these two pieces go.

Thanks again to everyone!
Skip

What a pity to break up the set after 65 years. Why not sell the complete rig and buy another pistol?

[Ronnie Fry]

I agree with Denny !! Don't break up the set.... They are a "matched" set. If only by time and circumstance....

r

[Skip Pickett]

Thanks

The many posts are most appreciated... I love this place! I've learned a lot on this Forum over the years and I still am amazed how the hobby has changed due to such places where we can "talk".

This is one of those topics that I guess both opinions are "correct". Meaning, a lot of collectors feel for a "rig" to be "correct", it has to be with a holster of the same year and a mag from the gun's maker. Several collectors I've known for years never stray from that concept which I guess has rubbed off on me.

That always perplexed me since it is how the Vet brought it back, so how could it not be "correct". Everyone knows holsters got replaced and repaired later in the War, so an ac41 in a '43 dated holster is "correct" - undoubtedly.

So, once again, I really appreciate all the input and opinions. I'm still on the fence as to which opinion is best... but it's good to have options.

Skip

[leondes]

The upward closure straps on soft shell P.38 holsters is unusual but does show up from time to time. However, a brown holster with an upward closure strap is rather scarce.

I don't believe the upward closure strap indicates police issue. I have no explanation for why that was done. The soft shells I have seen that are police issue have the downward closure. Here is a link to one. http://lmd-militaria.com/page590.html

Johnny, most of the very late war holsters do not have a waffenamt.

A few makers made the holsters with an upward closure. gxy is the most common. Here is a link to another. http://lmd-militaria.com/page0117.htm

Here is another. http://lmd-militaria.com/page372.html

Here is a link to a brown gxy 1943, waffenamt stamped and with the upward closure. http://lmd-militaria.com/page345.html

Regards, Leon

[Johnny Peppers]

As anal as the German military was about changing anything, I find it unusual that a manufacturer would just make holsters with the closure strap up or down for no specific reason. Even though the LP.08 made at Erfurt was only produced in 1914, the receiver notch for the LP.08 rear sight was continued through 1918 production.
The lug for the shoulder stock was added in 1913, and although no stock was issued after 1918, the stock lug was retained until production ended in WWII.

[Ronnie Fry]

Johnny, I have heard/read that the continuation of the stock lug on the luger was to facilitate manufacturing as much as anything... It was a good place to "grip" and hold the frame for all the different mfgr processes. Makes sense to me...

r

[Johnny Peppers]

The stock lug as a fixturing aid is one of the best guesses as to why the stock lug was left on, but there is nothing to substantiate this. It would not make a strong attachment point for milling operations, and it wouldn't have to fit a WWI shoulder stock.
Just like the sight slot in the Erfurt receiver, everyone was probably afraid to suggest that they stop making it that way.

[james m]

I don't know if it's correct to post this in this thread but here's an example of a P38 brought back in a brown holster of this type by my uncle. I've copied the makers mark and waffamr as best I can but they're really faint.
N.B: The paper sticking out is the one my uncle filled our for customs in 1945.
Jim

[karlo]

I don't know if it's correct to post this in this thread but here's an example of a P38 brought back in a brown holster of this type by my uncle. I've copied the makers mark and waffamr as best I can but they're really faint.
N.B: The paper sticking out is the one my uncle filled our for customs in 1945.
Jim

hmmm..these scarce ones are becoming less scarce...nice one that

[james m]

Thanks Karlo: For whatever it's worth my uncle told me he took it off a camp guard but doesn't remember the name of the camp. The pistol is a late war AC44.
Jim

[leondes]

Hi Jim,
The maker code appears to be jwa with a "4" under that. A jwa with an upward closure strap is very, very difficult to find. I don't have one, for sure. Your holster looks black to me.

Regards, Leon

[james m]

Leon:
Thanks for the information. I think you're right about the JWA over a 4. The holster is dark brown and what you're seeing in the photo is somewhat misleading. It may have had a coat of black stain applied at one time but if that's the case it's mostly gone now. I am somewhat clueless when it comes to holsters. Can you or anyone put a price on this example although it will never be for sale due to the family connection?
Jim

[leondes]

Jim,

The leather that holsters were made from were all originally brown leather until they were stained. I believe the leather in your's was stained before it was made into a holster. In most all cases, if it is stained post production, the stitching will be stained also. Your stitching is still somewhat white which is a good sign. As the original black stain wears, a holster will take on a brownish appearance.

As to price, I don't mean to be flippant, but it's what someone is willing to pay for it. Some collectors just want a holster. If that is the case $100 would be about right due to the condition. A serious holster collector who recognizes that a jwa with an upward closure is scarce to rare would likely pay double that or more. $250 comes to mind.

Regards, Leon

[Matt Weber]

This is the kind of thread I like! Some nice looking holsters here by everyone!

Skip, your 1943 gxy, brown P38 holster with backwards strap is a gem! I wouldn't sell it if I were you! Keep it with your rig!

Also, I agree with Leon. No real explination for the backwards strap on these break-away holsters. It does not indicate police though!

Matt