Question about vz.24 pistol holster and German markings

[tsellati]

I am considering purchasing the following vz.24 pistol rig -









My question concerns the markings observed on the inside flap of the holster -



What is the general consensus regarding whether holsters for the vz.24 pistol were marked for issuance to German police and/or military personnel?

Thanks for sharing your expertise and I hope to hear your opinions ASAP.

Tim

[AndyB]

I dont believe the holster was made in prewar period, probably early war production, what is there written in front of book? the ink stamp with eagle?

[JoeW]

AndyB, you think the holster was produced under German control? I think they would think it a lot of wasted leather for a small caliber pocket pistol. Look at the simple designs of the P27 (t). And what is that marking on the front of the holster: P28A? That is not German is it?

I do not think captured holsters would be marked for reissue to the police. The P24 (t) was not accepted by the police so there would be no guns officially issued. But I have seen picture of an officer wearing a VZ24 holster and we know that the police modified P24 (t) holsters in 1944 by removing the mag pouch stud.

[tsellati]

I dont believe the holster was made in prewar period, probably early war production, what is there written in front of book? the ink stamp with eagle?

Andy,

Thank you for your feedback and sharing your thoughts on this holster.

Here is the best close up cropped image I can provide of the markings on the inside flap of the holster -



It appears there is a faint "P28A" ink stamp similar to the one pressed into the leather. My lack of familiarity with written German makes it difficult to tell what letters are ink stamped above and below the Nazi Eagle or the words stamped above the upper left corner of the spare magazine pouch.

Perhaps your eyes (and your German) are better than mine and you will be able to tell me more about the provenance of this holster.

Tim

[tsellati]

AndyB, you think the holster was produced under German control? I think they would think it a lot of wasted leather for a small caliber pocket pistol. Look at the simple designs of the P27 (t). And what is that marking on the front of the holster: P28A? That is not German is it?

I do not think captured holsters would be marked for reissue to the police. The P24 (t) was not accepted by the police so there would be no guns officially issued. But I have seen picture of an officer wearing a VZ24 holster and we know that the police modified P24 (t) holsters in 1944 by removing the mag pouch stud.

Joe,

I agree with your line of thinking that this holster was not manufactured by the Germans. Based upon the P28A stamp and reading through some of my reference books on Czechoslovak pistols I think this holster was originally made by the Czechs for their vz.28 pistol. The vz.28 pistol looks remarkably similar to the vz.24 pistol except it has a thinner trigger and a different trigger mechanism. These vz.28 pistols were manufactured and offered to the Ministry of the Military of Poland in the early 1930s.

The Germans may have acquired this holster when they invaded Poland and at some point the holster and the current vz.24 pistol were mated.

Tim

[JoeW]

The bottom of the circular stamp reads Staff (Stab). The photo is not the best angle to read the rest. You might try a vertical photo position? The other German stamp reads I believe "Bestandsbuch Nr._____" or Stock or Inventory Book Number.

You think the P28A indicates the pistol type? Then there was also a P29A as I have seen a Cz24 holster so marked.

[tsellati]

The bottom of the circular stamp reads Staff (Stab). The photo is not the best angle to read the rest. You might try a vertical photo position? The other German stamp reads I believe "Bestandsbuch Nr._____" or Stock or Inventory Book Number.

You think the P28A indicates the pistol type? Then there was also a P29A as I have seen a Cz24 holster so marked.

Joe,

Thanks so much for the portions of the stamps you were able to decipher. I have asked the seller to take some additional close up pictures of the inside flap of the holster.

Regarding the "P28A" I am unsure what the letter "A" refers to, but, according to pages 138-143 of Jan Skramoussky's "Ceskoslovenske Pistole: 1918-1985" a vz.28 pistol does exist that looks remarkably similar to the vz.24 pistol.

The one version of the vz.28 pistol came with a more slender trigger and different trigger mechanism (pictured on pages 139-140, accepted in 1927). than the vz.24 pistol. However, another example accepted in 1931 and shown on page 141 has the thicker trigger common to the vz.24 pistol and, for all intents and purposes, looks identical to its older sibling.

Then there is a really cool variant of the vz.28 with a long straight pistol grip to accommodate a shoulder stock pictured on page 143.

Now with regard to the Czech vz.24 holster you have seen stamped with a "P29A", there is a vz.29 model pistol chambered for 9 mm Parabellum with a longer barrel than is seen on the vz.24 pistol. The vz.29 pistol is pictured on page 145.

The Czech's did not seem challenged when it came to conceiving of variants to the standard pistol design .

Hopefully, Andy has the same book by Jan Skramoussky and he can help translate what is said about these pistols and about the holsters with which they were issued. My ability to read Czech is as bad as my ability to read German .

Tim

[JoeW]

Fascinating Tim. Thanks for the reference in that book. So the book shows the shoulder stock for the long frame vz.24, called the vz.28. I have pictures of one of those somewhere.

[tsellati]

Fascinating Tim. Thanks for the reference in that book. So the book shows the shoulder stock for the long frame vz.24, called the vz.28. I have pictures of one of those somewhere.

Joe,

If you are interested in shoulder stocks for the Czechoslovak pistols these pictures will definitely make you salivate -





I sure would love to own one of these shoulder stocks, but, like the ultra rare silencers for Czech pistols I have never seen one in "real life", only pictures in books .

Tim

[tsellati]

The other German stamp reads I believe "Bestandsbuch Nr._____" or Stock or Inventory Book Number.

Based upon your translation I looked at the photograph again and I wonder if the penciled in numeral "9" is the Stock or Inventory Book Number for this holster.



Or, do these Stock or Inventory Book Numbers refer to the pistol that was issued with the holster?

It also is interesting that the name "Semonis" is written in pencil on the inside flap of the holster. I wonder if this is the individual to which the holster (and its accompanying pistol) was issued.

Tim

[AndyB]

I believe Your pistol holster is for Vz.24 not for Vz.28, the pistol was probably made under czechoslovak but not accepted into service, and later by occupiyng of Bohemia and Moravia, the equipment were reused, the stamps could be SchuPo Stab as the eagle is NS not Wehrmacht, also a police staff unit, same as the Bestandsbuch speaks for Police unit. The P28A i believe is a early kode of the Producer and not a czechoslovak unit stamp. best regards,Andy

[tsellati]

... the eagle is NS not Wehrmacht, also a police staff unit,...regards,Andy

Ah, so if I understand correctly, the holster has a German NSDAP eagle and not a Wehrmacht eagle stamp. And, the other stamps may suggest use by the German police in the Bohemian/Moravian region?

Thank you for this additional information.

Tim

[JoeW]

I am glad Andy can read and explain those stamps, as I can't make it out. The holster would not have been issued with a Vz.24 to the police as that weapon was not accepted for police use. The holsters were used with other pistols by the police, so it could have markings of any combat formation. Though I must admit, I am not partial to holsters bearing correspondence stamps used by military or police formations. I have a photo of one worn by a police general in Norway. What ever he was carrying was private purchase.

The stock Vz. 28 is indeed interesting. And I would love to find a legal silencer for this mate.

[tsellati]

And I would love to find a legal silencer for this mate.

Oh Joe, and what a beauty she is .

Tim

[AndyB]

Hello, the eagle is for 3R typical, but without detailed pictures or examining of marking with magnifier is no possible to determine it clearly, Tim You should made a better detail or write the letters above the eagle in round ink stamp. The holster is a Vz.24 pistol, but doesnt mean that this army pistol was there? But germans captured a large amount of these pistols in Protektorat B&M. The JoeW silencer is certainly nice, could You provide a serial number range? best regards,Andy