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**Frogprince** · 11-09-2013, 01:36 AM

Originally posted by Frogprince View Post

Like the "Gold General Officers" daggers with a zinc chromate pre-finish, and period German documentation disproving them?? The "BDM/DJ/Olympic" knives? The SA "Birdshead"and "Hühnlein" daggers? I just hate to see guys pay full bore prices for fakes or items that have been altered at some point. And of course no disrespect intended. Fred

Originally posted by J. Wraith View Post

No Fred, like no brainer one looker engraving that you like to cover with John Madden color coded football plays and in this case a gau marked crossguard. Your not happy unless your pissing in someones Cheerios. Thats the problem with engineers and quite frankly the problem with your incessent need to crap on everything.

OK, so you are conceding that there are a number of times that I am right? And complaining about graphics, and the Gau marked crossguards that the “us” group likes? And while you might not believe it, there are times where I compliment the owner, or might feel that I have nothing to really add to what has already been said in favor of an item. I also happen to like Cheerios and would never consider doing what you suggested.

And the next time you take a trip in an airplane you had better hope that the engineers who designed it did their job - and the wings don’t fall off.

Fred

**sdesember** · 11-09-2013, 05:35 AM

Originally posted by Frogprince View Post

Actually an interim maker after the original all nickel silver types, I'm afraid that it's a parts piece with the originals having cross guards of zinc that were prone to corroding, with perhaps some others of cast iron. With Barry Brown from the UK posting originals (of the so-called "Type I") from his collection on the forum here a while back (not nickel silver and no Gau marks), but unfortunately I don't have the link bookmarked.

But I do have an old GDC discussion link that has pictures of what an original so-called "Type I" should look like.

http://forum.germandaggers.com/ubbth...5044#Post25044

With the example here exhibiting a cross guard gap that is not uncommon for the "Gau" marked types, and a WAF link here disproving claims that cross guards/parts cannot be switched from daggers to other daggers.

http://184.172.36.50/forums/showthread.php?t=506419

And when I get chance, on my other computer I will have to find some pictures I have that show a scabbard and mounts that could be a little worse than this one. But the corroded cross guards are in terrible shape, and while it's not welded together, you can see that it's just the way it was found as one assembly. Fred

FP,

I remember there's another discussion on Type 1 chain on GDC. This was way back before the major wipe out of old threads. I posted my Type 1 that I got direct, albeit via Ebay, from a vet's son in PA. Would you happen to still have the photos I posted by any chance? I took some nice close ups too on the dagger.

**DR DOLCH** · 11-09-2013, 09:24 AM

Changing a crossguard on a SS/SA dagger is not an easy fix. There are so many Gau marked chained SS daggers that I consider it a caracteristic of them or textbook.

**J. Wraith** · 11-09-2013, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by Frogprince View Post

OK, so you are conceding that there are a number of times that I am right? And complaining about graphics, and the Gau marked crossguards that the “us” group likes? And while you might not believe it, there are times where I compliment the owner, or might feel that I have nothing to really add to what has already been said in favor of an item. I also happen to like Cheerios and would never consider doing what you suggested.

And the next time you take a trip in an airplane you had better hope that the engineers who designed it did their job - and the wings don’t fall off.

Fred

Fred,

A stopped clock is right twice a day, its the rest of the time where its a problem. I am aware of the arguments on the above mentioned pieces and they are not for me. I would hope there is an engineer on board should my plane ever crash, in case we don't get rescued quickly he will make a fine meal I am sure.

**zozole** · 11-09-2013, 11:27 AM

I always considered Gau marked 36 to be parts daggers, and I never liked them, until one beautiful summer day when I pulled one straight from the woodwork, never in a collection before, untuched, uncleand and salty as hell ,

they sure did exist..

Best

Emil

**Reibert-Austria** · 11-09-2013, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by zozole View Post

...
they sure did exist..
...

even so !

Such daggers with Gebietsgruppen-Stempel are "textbook" in my eyes clearly !

**BobI** · 11-09-2013, 01:56 PM

I am glad to see people see through Fred's miss-information, just as we have seen in the past on multiple topics.
Best Wishes,
Bob

**Frogprince** · 11-09-2013, 06:14 PM

Originally posted by sdesember View Post

FP,

I remember there's another discussion on Type 1 chain on GDC. This was way back before the major wipe out of old threads. I posted my Type 1 that I got direct, albeit via Ebay, from a vet's son in PA. Would you happen to still have the photos I posted by any chance? I took some nice close ups too on the dagger.

It was bad enough that so many threads were wiped out which included the article I did for GDC on the M 1936 “Type X” chains (inickel silver with a deviated septum). Which I had hoped would make it into the “SS” book in sufficient time to make the book a better, more complete reference. But that did not happen. And then I had a couple of hard drive crashes, and had to try and resurrect data from the older type archive media. Which could have gone better, but I did eventually find a good portion of the original “Type X” data that I worked with.

A little later I also changed platforms, and fast forwarding to now I’m using a different system with a couple of upgrades in between. And currently I have somebody who is helping guide the process of some more upgrades and a much needed file restructuring. Which is my roundabout way of telling you that I may have them. But I won’t know for sure as to when because it’s a lot more than SS daggers that I’ve collected and/or studied. So while I’m going to have some help, it’s going to be more on the technical side with the machines, and I will send you a PM when I find what I have and we can go from there. Regards, Fred

**sdesember** · 11-09-2013, 11:20 PM

Thanks FP. Looking forward to it. It sounded like a similar situation that happened to me. I once did a photo shoot, hiring a professional photographer for an SS Degen that was featured in Tom W.'s book. And, I lost the damn files too. I paid about a couple of hundreds bucks for the session. And, what's more shame is it was done in a medium format camera, too. Damn shame.

Originally posted by Frogprince View Post

It was bad enough that so many threads were wiped out which included the article I did for GDC on the M 1936 “Type X” chains (inickel silver with a deviated septum). Which I had hoped would make it into the “SS” book in sufficient time to make the book a better, more complete reference. But that did not happen. And then I had a couple of hard drive crashes, and had to try and resurrect data from the older type archive media. Which could have gone better, but I did eventually find a good portion of the original “Type X” data that I worked with.

A little later I also changed platforms, and fast forwarding to now I’m using a different system with a couple of upgrades in between. And currently I have somebody who is helping guide the process of some more upgrades and a much needed file restructuring. Which is my roundabout way of telling you that I may have them. But I won’t know for sure as to when because it’s a lot more than SS daggers that I’ve collected and/or studied. So while I’m going to have some help, it’s going to be more on the technical side with the machines, and I will send you a PM when I find what I have and we can go from there. Regards, Fred

**The Red Baron** · 11-10-2013, 11:02 AM

Do i know you J. Wraith? I appreicate the comment that I won't be waiting tables....

I have done pretty well at a tier 1 law school

As for this thread, great to see everyone finally recognizing these daggers as authentic.

Further, Yes FP, we don't care what your thoughts on general daggers, or birdshead pieces, or anything else honestly. Evidence of past acts is irrelevant to this discussion. Your credentials are meaningless here: even the golden hue you add to them like those generals daggers you hate hahaha.

**Frogprince** · 11-10-2013, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by The Red Baron View Post

Do i know you J. Wraith? I appreicate the comment that I won't be waiting tables....

I have done pretty well at a tier 1 law school

As for this thread, great to see everyone finally recognizing these daggers as authentic.

Further, Yes FP, we don't care what your thoughts on general daggers, or birdshead pieces, or anything else honestly. Evidence of past acts is irrelevant to this discussion. Your credentials are meaningless here: even the golden hue you add to them like those generals daggers you hate hahaha.

Have a nice day.

**Frogprince** · 11-10-2013, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by sdesember View Post

Thanks FP. Looking forward to it. It sounded like a similar situation that happened to me. I once did a photo shoot, hiring a professional photographer for an SS Degen that was featured in Tom W.'s book. And, I lost the damn files too. I paid about a couple of hundreds bucks for the session. And, what's more shame is it was done in a medium format camera, too. Damn shame.

I’m really very sorry to hear that. I know how frustrating it can be to lose something that you've put a lot of effort and resources into. Another one that I think got lost was the thread about the SS-Kulturzeichen markings as seen on swords, daggers, and ceramics. Of course there is now an improved “backup” version here on the WAF minus some of the photos I had. With input from various additional sources, including the specialist who discovered the term and provided it for the SS book. Which created some problems for those who were still clinging to the old collectors myth that the SS-Kulturzeichen marking was that of Karl Diebitsch - but that’s another story in itself. Best Regards, Fred

**sdesember** · 11-10-2013, 11:37 AM

FP,

Thanks. No biggies though. I enjoyed the experience and the process of contributing for a book.

On another note,... just migrate here, dude. It's a pretty bonafide place to hang out. In fact, you already got quite a welcome here!

(just pulling your chain...)

Originally posted by Frogprince View Post

I’m really very sorry to hear that. I know how frustrating it can be to lose something that you've put a lot of effort and resources into. Another one that I think got lost was the thread about the SS-Kulturzeichen markings as seen on swords, daggers, and ceramics. Of course there is now an improved “backup” version here on the WAF minus some of the photos I had. With input from various additional sources, including the specialist who discovered the term and provided it for the SS book. Which created some problems for those who were still clinging to the old collectors myth that the SS-Kulturzeichen marking was that of Karl Diebitsch - but that’s another story in itself. Best Regards, Fred

**J. Wraith** · 11-10-2013, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by Frogprince View Post

Have a nice day.

Fred,

I think what it comes down to and this is just my opinion, is picking the right fights. The Huhnlein and Birds Head daggers and such I watched along with some others and I don't go near those things personally but I understand the issues pro an con. Going out and hitting a whacking 500.00 S.A daggers and various items out of the woodwork for engraving and various personalizations (sic) and from people of character who know these pieces?, its not wise. I do not even collect daggers and some of the items called by Stephens or yourself left me baffled and under the impression that either there was some need for chest thumping or the owner was an issue.

Lot of people watch these things Fred, I kid around about engineers because they think in a certain way and are wired differently. These are daggers and collectibles, I see some of these arguments and I want to shoot myself with the colored circles and long arguments and I am looking at the piece and I know its right. Its like the boy who cried wolf. Stop being such an engineer.

**BobI** · 11-10-2013, 08:44 PM

The above post reminds me of a 110% "textbook" Himmler dagger that Fred was adamantly calling a laser etched copy. Now Fred accuses other people of not being able to ID engraving from being etched. It woudl seriously seem that as alluded above. Fred either has a problem with the sellers or some other pathological condition associated with his normal arguments, nothing else makes sense!
Bob

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