Sawback bayonet

[Dave-B]

Hi all,
I wasn't sure to put this in the Imperial forum or here, so if I have put it in the wrong one I apologise and please feel free to move it to the Imperial forum!

I was hoping someone can tell me something about this bayonet,all the fittings are nickel and it has a hard leather scabbard.The blade is nickel plated and is marked W.K&C with the King and Knight head logo.
The length of the whole bayonet is 21 1/2 inches long with a blade length of 16 inches.I am not well versed on bayonets but is it a private purchase M.98/02???

Many thanks

Dave

[Dave-B]

2

[Dave-B]

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[Dave-B]

makers mark

[Rich Yankowski]

To start,it's one of the nicest privately purchased sawback bayonets I've seen.As to the marker's mark,the left side 'King's head' is from the company of Weyersberg(Clemen's Weyersberg 1712-1754,Gebruder Weyersberg 1787-1883+1902-1925,Peter Weyersberg 1680-1712+1754-1782,and Wilhelm Weyersberg 1782-1786),all used the the same logo from 1680 to 1883.In 1883 the Weyersberg company joined with the company of W.R.Kirschbaum & Cie{C.R. Kirschbaum 1848-1858,W.R. Kirschbaum 1876-1883,and Kirschbaum & Bremshey 1858-1876(who used the right hand 'Knight's head' logo on your bayo),to form the company of Weyersberg/Kirschbaum & Cie(or W.K.C. for short)}.

Only a very small handful of model 98/02 special bayonets have been recorded,like 4 as of 1984,that I've read of.Two were unmarked ,one by Haenel ,and the other by Carl Kaiser & Companie.


The slender end cap on the scabbard reminds me more of the scabbard for the S 98 bayonet.The leather scabbard should have two parallel accent lines on the front and back.

How wide is the blade?My S 98 is only about 3/4's of an inch wide.The M 98/02 should be a lot wider,about 1 1/2 inch.Blade length of 16 to 17 inches for a special M 1898/02 sounds correct(about 20 1/2 inches for a S 98 and 14 1/2 inches for the 98/05).
If it's a M 98/05 the blade should be about 1.24 inch wide near wide part by the tip and 1.02 inch by the crossguard.The M 98/02 should be the same 1 1/2 inch in both spots.
The M 98/02 was only made from 1902 to 1905.

If this really is a M 1898/02,it's VERY rare!!!

[Dave-B]

Hi Rich,

Thank you for the very interesting information!!
Here are the measurements of the blade....it measures just shy of an inch wide at the crossguard and it measures 3/4 of an inch wide nearish the tip at the end of the saw.
The sawback length is 10 inches and starts 2 1/4 inches away from the crossguard and ends almost 4 inches from the tip of the blade.
Yes the scabbard does have 2 parallel lines running down it back and front.

What type do you think it is?

Regards

Dave

[Rich Yankowski]

The info on the maker's mark I supplied above was from John Walter's book "The sword and bayonet makers of Imperial Germany 1871-1918".The dimensions of the bayos was from John Walter's book "The German Bayonet".I also use books by Anthony Carter,Niemann Verlag,George Wheeler,Wayne Techet,Gary Walker/Ron Weinand,and Jerry Janzen for references on bayonets.Plus I also use catelogs from a few companies of those eras(WKC and Eickhorn).


Now,back to your bayonet.With the dimensions you give,let's take what it's not first.It's not a 98/02 or 98/05,the dimensions just aren't right.Nor are the measurements correct for a S98.

O.k. then,let's see what I do know for sure.It is an ogee-shapped pommel,like the S98 and 98/05.Guess that's it!

As to what it could be or is,I have a few theories.Private purchased bayonets don't always conform to their strictly military cousins.Sometimes blades and grips were changed,maybe to reflect what was on hand at the time of manufacture.The closest I can come to what you have is a Bavarian bayonet M 1869/71/98 with saw-back.This would be a Bavarian bayonet M 1869/71 with a new M 1898 style hilt and the saw-backed blade from either the Bavarian M 1871 bayonet or the Werder M 1869/71 bayonet(p.146 of Niemann Verlag's book "German Sidearms and Bayonets 1740-1945" and P. 32 of John Walter's book "The German Bayonet").

What-ever your bayonet really is,it seems to be a very rare and great looking edged weapon.

[Dave-B]

Wow! Thanks again Rich

I purchased the bayonet from JR who was offering it for sale on the e-stand,I am very glad I got it!

I have sent you a PM Rich.

Dave

[Rich Yankowski]

DANG!!! JR offered this to me a few months ago,and I passed because he didn't really know what it was,and I didn't research it more until now!!If I'd known then what I know now,it would've been mine!!!

I think you got one heck of a great deal on it!