Deutsches Jungvolk knife - real or fantasy?

[Frogprince]

Something that I should have catalogued and collected more images of when I started tracking them, were the re-riveted examples that had touched up paint. Observing some with a paint buildup at the base edges of the rivet, and sometimes localized ripples/other defects in the paint as compared to the OEM (original factory) full size HJ/DJ knives. FP

[Mac 66]

Great detective work by member Ludwig on the bogus Olympic RPT knife paper bags.


http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=954605

[Cracked]

This thread is a fascinating excursion past the rusty bullethole and on into the depths of the brown bowel of militaria dealing and collecting. The discussion of the DJ knife, albeit an insignificant item for most, is symptomatic of many items because as fake as these knives patently are, they continue to be defended by a coalition of the willing (coalition of the culpable?). Whatever... please guys... do not buy one of these monstrosities or advise another to do the same. Those who already own them: ask for a refund. If the refund is refused, ask Wittmann/Iqbal/Weinand/Johnson/Serge Masche et al to provide the proof for their position in defence of these knives and in defence of those who sell them. Good night and good luck. You'll need it!!

[BobI]

Hmmm, it is very interesting. When on the dagger forum and other people wait for and greatly respect Weinand and Serge's opinion. People only wait for their opinion when they like their opinion, that defies logic.

[Frogprince]

Hmmm, it is very interesting. When on the dagger forum and other people wait for and greatly respect Weinand and Serge's opinion. People only wait for their opinion when they like their opinion, that defies logic.

What I found interesting was on another forum quite a while back. Ron Weinand (and Houston Coates) discussing the 1980's arrival of the "DJ" cloned "Party Day" knives. That some supposed "TR" dealers were selling presumably because they couldn't find any legitimate blades to sell. Same knife with some etching added to create an "Instant Collectible" - the knife with 9 lives that seems to keep on generating profits. FP

[BobI]

And I agree those are bad, answer the question. Why does everyone cry, "What does Ron think"??!! Ron's word at least on the dagger forum is the last deciding word as long as it fits your narrative. Please tell me man no collectors know and person who probably does not own any 3rd Reich dress daggers. Why is that? Answer my questions and I will be happy to answer yours.
Bob

[Frogprince]

And I agree those are bad, answer the question. Why does everyone cry, "What does Ron think"??!! Ron's word at least on the dagger forum is the last deciding word as long as it fits your narrative. Please tell me man no collectors know and person who probably does not own any 3rd Reich dress daggers. Why is that? Answer my questions and I will be happy to answer yours.
Bob

Bob, The little aluminum hilted PX type knives are not actually daggers so I’m not quite sure where you are going with this. But if all I have do is prove that I own a dress dagger to join the “TR Dress Daggers - Only For Owners Club” consider it done. The fairly old image here was an experiment in direct sunlight to demonstrate the type of wood that was commonly used that didn’t quite work out like I thought it would. And for the record, while I don’t always agree with him, I personally value Ron’s insight in various topics as somebody who has been around a long time, and within his comfort zone been exposed to a lot of what happened in the early days until the present time. Fred

[BobI]

Great rifle!
OK, to clarify I should have said "Edged Weapons"". However, this helps reinforce my point. No one knows you, you do not seem to have much of a collection or any. Do you have a pile of factory documents? I know you want to help people but you don't seem to have much of a background to do so. You do make some very good points, but other times you are way off. If this is your extent of collecting, how do you research?
Bob

[Serge M.]

Fred, is that a early walnut 33/40 ?

[Frogprince]

Fred, is that a early walnut 33/40 ?

Serge, Yes it is - you’ve nailed it! At least in my experience not that easy to find, and not to be confused with the Wehrmacht standard Karabiner 98k short rifles. This example with it's Tiger striped stock earned a permanent place in my TR era collection. Best Regards, Fred

[Darin S.]

Page 110 and 111 of the RZM regulations explain all.

[militarymania]

page 110 and 111 of the rzm regulations explain all.

please reveal to the masses what it does say

[Darin S.]

please reveal to the masses what it does say

It gives the exact specification for the knife and states "H.J. und D.J. Fahrtenmesser". No mention of any smaller sized "D.J." specific knife. The regulations are clear. The Germans loved photographing everything during the period it seems, even atrocities. Seems very odd no photos of this so called "D.J." knife have ever been shown.

[Cracked]

It gives the exact specification for the knife and states "H.J. und D.J. Fahrtenmesser". No mention of any smaller sized "D.J." specific knife. The regulations are clear. The Germans loved photographing everything during the period it seems, even atrocities. Seems very odd no photos of this so called "D.J." knife have ever been shown.

Yes indeed. It is one of many pamphlets/documents/regulations from the period 1933-45 that really should be sufficient to stamp out any discussion in support of these DJ/BDM/RPT etc knives. However, some people seem not to be interested in proof. Worse still, this thread shows that that some don't even believe that it exists and that the proclamations of people like those I listed a few posts back should count for more despite the fact that none of them have ever shown that the knives, as they are now presented, described and sold, ever existed during the TR.

The routine poo-poohing of period evidence in favour of the proclamations of a cabal of dealers and "names" is staggering. How many times does one have to be caught pushing/publishing fakes before the community starts to suspect one's opinions? A long time it would seem.. I can only hope that sufficient people are reading between the lines...

[Cracked]

I am sorry dntlss, tell the truth here and you will be ridiculed and told you are full of lies! No way, impossible, these did not exist! People who's only experience is reading the forums and "following the leader"! This is impossible, no way! The countless people with similar experience are all full of it!
Bob

Ahem...

just noticed that comment. Notwithstanding the fact that neither you nor anyone else on this thread has shown your story about the DJ knife to be true I find that for you the concept of "truth" would seem to be relative. Why do I say that? Well, before you make any statements it appears that you apply a simple algorithm which adds weight to or subtracts weight from previous comments based on who made them as opposed to whether the posts were meaningful and especially when they contradicted your point of view. I see it all over this thread.

Going back to the quoted text, you are not telling the "truth" about these knives and that is because you can't tell the truth and that is because you don't know what the truth is. If you did all discussion about the DJ knife being a legitimate TR collectible would end instantly. What you have is a belief that is packaged and sold as the truth and no matter what is thrown against your belief in the way of evidence from the period you are clearly going to cling to that belief. Which leader are you following by the way?