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    #301
    Originally posted by Mac 66 View Post
    You meaning me ?, if not who ?
    99% certain he means you. In the past I have seen your username on two forums (I was on one of them immediately before coming here), possibly three, letting off steam about opaque enamel HJ knife badges and the so-called DJ knife and Hermann V was the guy you were in disagreement with. Now you seem to be all over him and now appear to believe that certain stuff you were convinced was crap is now okay because he says so. Just my opinion based on what I have read.

    Comment

      #302
      Originally posted by Röhm1929 View Post
      99% certain he means you. In the past I have seen your username on two forums (I was on one of them immediately before coming here), possibly three, letting off steam about opaque enamel HJ knife badges and the so-called DJ knife and Hermann V was the guy you were in disagreement with. Now you seem to be all over him and now appear to believe that certain stuff you were convinced was crap is now okay because he says so. Just my opinion based on what I have read.


      Hey its nice to be nice for a change & try & get on with people i disagreed with in the past, we are all learning & no one is perfect with all the true facts on DJ knifes or solid red diamonds !


      please read back & tell me where i changed my mind on the Aluminium hilted DJ knifes ?

      Comment

        #303
        Originally posted by Garry M. View Post
        Please correct me if I have misunderstood something here. Although he doesn't explicitly say it, victorman seems to be a supporter of the "DJ" knife. However, he has not offered any explanation for how, when and why the small Klaas knife came to have a HJ diamond (either on the scabbard or the handle). I don't understand why this has not been challenged because I see a correspondent here who now seems to agree with victorman despite being absolutely "anti-DJ knife" in the past.


        Garry,


        The small Klaas knife has no diamond attached !!!


        I am still anti DJ knife !


        stop jumping the gun man.

        Comment

          #304
          I don't know who it was but thanks anyway for correcting the thread title.

          Intro

          On another thread Bob Iqbal recently posted that he had been "proven right" regarding the "DJ" knife. In light of the controversy that generally surrounds these knives I thought that I would pull out his posts, make a couple of comments and invite him to do one little thing for me.

          This is not an attack on him nor is it meant that way. This is about a particular item and whether Bob, a dealer, is warranted in thinking that he was proved right. This is a very controversial item and so it is important to examine the opinions of those who seem absolutely sure that these knives are what they are claimed by them to be.

          My thanks to the guys over on HJ-Research.com for some of the information I mention throughout this post. I thoroughly recommend the HJ forum for anyone interested in the HJ.

          So on with the post.

          My position on the "DJ" knife (diamond on scabbard):

          The base product, the unmarked knife without scabbard diamond, is known to have been existed during the period. It appears in a period catalogue. I believe that persons unknown jazzed up this otherwise uninteresting knife found in Solingen or possibly somewhere else post-war by slapping diamonds on the scabbards. I believe that the Olympic and Reichsparteitag knives are also jazzed-up post-war versions of this knife. I do not believe that there is any link to the DJ, HJ let alone to the BDM because no original literature or photos have surfaced that would lend weight to that scenario. The only reason that these knives are afforded any credibility is because they were featured in books by prominent authors. Accounts of vet-buys of the "DJ" knife are also around and have been viewed as evidence by those who like these knives.

          Bob Iqbal's position on the "DJ" knife?

          "these knives are real".



          So, here goes. Post numbers are from this thread.


          Post #40 "these knives are real":

          Originally posted by Bob Iqbal
          These knives are like the flawed S+L RK, they were unquestioned for decades until someone here said they were bad. Since this person was popular and had a lot of good information they were believed to be bad on his word for a couple of years, now they are real again. These knives are real, I will have to check my notes but I do not think there is any evidence of the maker for them. There is another version of this knife by a known maker, Klaas. These examples are identical in dimensions but have iron hilts. Up until recently the only times these were questioned is when the insignia was added, if the insignia is present. The method of attachment is how we know which ones were period modified. Ron's description is accurate for the proper method of attachment.
          Best Wishes,
          Bob
          Questions:

          1. The dispute is not whether the little knives themselves are period pieces but

          rather:
          why is that diamond on the scabbard?
          can they be legitimately attributed to the Deutsches Jungvolk?
          can they be legitimately attributed to the HJ?

          2. "The method of attachment is how we know which ones were period modified. Ron's description is accurate for the proper method of attachment".

          You and Ron (Weinand) can tell the difference between a diamond that was slapped on pre-May 1945 and one that was slapped on in the 1960s or 1970s? Interesting. Prove it.

          Back story: Weinand and Wittmann both revised their opinions a few years back and are now of the opinion that the "DJ" knife is actually "DJ" AND "HJ". They see it as a late-war alternative to the standard HJ knife. No proof has been offered in support of this theory.



          Post #61 "Why don't YOU ask him":

          Originally posted by Bob Iqbal
          Thanks Guys, always fun to be here! Well, I spoke to my friend Kim who vet purchased one of these three months ago. I have one without the emblem, it was broken when I received it that was vet purchased. Trust me, as many of you know, I do a pretty good job of keeping fakes off my site. So, I totally understand how vets end up with fakes. Whether they were made in semi-recent times or 1945, I do understand this "stuff".
          The reason Ron is not responding is because those who have done this for 40 years plus have no question as to their authenticity. TW is well respected, perhaps one of you should ask his opinion on these? Lastly, some of the new, young collectors have incredible knowledge and have done outstanding research on our treasures. However, there is still miss-information out there from some of the newer guys that are authoritive in their areas. We can agree to disagree, no reason to fight but these knives are real.
          Best Wishes,
          Bob
          PS- I have never seen one as was alluded to earlier that they "must" have rectangular holes to fit the diamond prongs through. Since these were not factory modified I can see this as being a "possibility" but by no means the rule. PPS- I know my comments will not be well recepted so I said what I need to and will not return to beat a dead horse.
          This is an exercise in name-dropping, vagueness and self-promotion. Also, why don't YOU ask TW? Why should someone else do it? You are claiming that "these knives are real" so any support you can get for your position should be welcome to you. You talk about manufacturing but you cannot know whether these knives were "converted" in 1943, 53 or 63.

          Post #65 "Real? Definitely":

          In response to a ludicrous claim by T Wittmann that he has a pre-1929 (possibly even 1927!) Hitler Youth knife you defend him. You offer no facts of your own regarding the introduction date of the HJ knife and instead challenge the doubters to prove their argument!

          Anyway, this is what you said:

          Originally posted by Bob Iqbal
          Hi Guys!
          Well, I said I would not but I guess one more response. 1. I seem to collect in phases over the years. I am very burnt out on HJ knives, unless they are "minty" with the motto! Anyway, I quickly glanced at TW list, I see one he calls 1927-1929 issue because of the TM on it. I have not studied well the Eickhorn TMs but if he has a piece that is unaltered and has a TM from this time period I can see why he would draw such a conclusion.
          2. Secondly, I can't comment on Ron's observations over the years. All I can speak of is my own.
          3. On my experience I can tell many stories of APBs, Gold TDS, and the 25 Year SS medal. My experiences from others has been different. Some variations I was comfortable with, my friends were not. Thanks to the Internet and the ability to debate and share quickly we know all of what we discussed are real. These knives are another example, they are real. If you don't like them don't buy one.
          4. For those of you who do not believe them, please share with us your experience collecting as far as time and what you have owned.
          5. I have had 27 returns in 10 years which is well under 1% of what I have sold. On the rare occasion someone disputes something on my site, you guys come to my rescue which seems to only happen with a couple of dealers. I am grateful for that! I would not lie to you or argue for their originality if I were not certain of it myself!
          Best Wishes,
          Bob
          You directly equated time spent on collecting with knowledge i.e. if Mr A has collected item B for C number of years then his level of knowledge must be B x C. That does not automatically apply and it shows how you evaluate responses on forums. Famous name? Dealer? "Dang! He MUST be right" and indeed, you inexplicably gave Wittmann the benefit of the doubt even when people (you know, those nobodies who do not produce a ping on your radar) pointed out with irrefutable facts that Wittmann's conclusion was faultly.

          You once again confidently assert that the "DJ" knife is "real". You seem to think that this simple assertion is enough but in the context of this discussion it - isn't. It is a vague buzzword and comes across as non-committal, even evasive in a way and almost as if you are deliberately using it so that you can define it later should the need suddenly arise. I'm thinking of a time, for example, when someone finds information that blows you out of the water on these knives. A redefinition of "real" would come in handy there I
          would think.


          Post #75 "No, let's watch the other video":

          Originally posted by Bob Iqbal
          I do not believe in the legitimacy of the green enameld pieces. 2. In nearly all cases of "fakes" that hit the market they can be traced back to a single source. I would love to see your research to prove these are fake. In Tom's description "This oval trademark traces back to about the 1927 to 1929 period", I read it as Tom describing the TM and using it to date the knife, let me know if there is an important adjective I am missing. I like to think my 14 years of advanced education will allow me to interpret this properly but I guess I may need some help. When legitimate research shows these as fake I will be very happy to video tape the destruction of the one I own.

          Best Wishes,
          Bob
          You don't believe in green enamel HJ diamond badges? (phew!). You noticed Wittmann's error but your 14 years of advanced education weren't enough to help you get the whole way. The HJ knife he was selling there cannot, absolutely cannot be from that early. That can be proven and quite what made Wittmann reach his conclusion I will never know.

          Originally posted by Bob Iqbal
          When legitimate research shows these as fake I will be very happy to video tape the destruction of the one I own
          Legitimate research has put these knives firmly into the drawer marked "Extremely Controversial". Opinions from those who like the knife and vet-buy stories have not changed that. Where is your research by the way? I would much rather watch that video.


          Post #111 "The proof has been lost but these knives are still real":

          Originally posted by Bob Iqbal
          Boy, those dealers are all crooks and are well organized. They have very carefully planted DJ knives and Hunlein daggers in various places with no connection so they can be bought under the pretense they were "vet obtained". Perhaps they have a union so I can join and get affordable health care. Obama care will kill us all, almost literally as well as some of these wives tales")!
          Fakes are in books and have been since the very early days of our hobby as you well know. Some of those books were written by people who claim to have proof that these little knives are "DJ" "DJ/HJ"or "BDM" but your problem is that they never show it. Back story:

          Wittman says that he has a photo of a HJ boy wearing a "DJ knife". Why then does he insist on calling the knife "DJ"?
          Johnson has stated that he has a period authorisation for DJ to wear this "DJ" knife. It has never been shown and he admits two things: he can't find it and "a link between the DJ knife and the DJ cannot be proven". Doesn't say much for the content of that lost authorisation now does it?
          Shea reported that he had a letter from Jutta Ruediger, the leader of the BDM from 1937-45. This letter is said to contain confirmation that the small knife, without diamond, was "available to the BDM for purchase". Letter not shown, ever and in any case that would make the knife "available to the BDM" and not "a BDM knife", the latter being the description used by dealers in the past.



          Post #117 "Give my my proof!!":

          Originally posted by Bob Iqbal
          Why would a dealer buy it when he could simply make one? Or simply place an order in with the "militaria Mafea Dealer Order Site"? I am still waiting for proof they are fake and how so many of us have been deceived by dealers disguised as vets over the decades.
          Best Wishes,
          Bob
          Your post was made in response to a link posted by a member to a thread where a "DJ" knife was sold. Estand as I remember but it has since been deleted. You are still waiting for the proof to counter your opinion, which is actually not your own but rather that of other dealers mentioned previously. Again, instead of saying "it's real" why don't you state your full case with proof that "real" is more than just a buzzword? I contend that this is because you can't.


          Post #119 "Baby Boomers - perhaps":

          Originally posted by Bob Iqbal
          Well, since everyone I know who has collected since probably before you were born feels they are original the burden of proving they are fake is on you. I will make a note of the disbelief by the minority on my web site. I will respond now only when you show proof, too many other 3rd recih fall into the same situation that are considered real. This is just like the die flawed RK.
          Bob
          This was posted in response to a member who suggested that you suspend sale of your two "DJ" knives until you prove that they are authentic. Or, in Bob-speak: "real". Once again you defer to older dealers who do not have any proof that the "DJ" and "BDM" knives are "real" either. Did you place that notice on your site by the way?


          Challenged to retrieve just one single piece of verifiable evidence (post #120) from your like-minded friends you ducked the question and did not surface until post #132 where you answered an unrelated post as follows:

          Originally posted by Bob Iqbal
          I think among those of us that know these are real know they did not have the button added at the factory. That is why the rivet was

          ground to release the runners so the pins would fit. Secondly, in the picture shown which very well could be a sloppy job, it was not a

          head on shot so the angle may obscure your axis.
          Bob
          Do you see the pattern Bob? You view it as sufficient to simply say "real" and then allude to an unknown (to the reader) group of people who agree with you as if that
          strengthens your position. Sloppy rivets and viewing angles? You have no idea if the diamond was ever on the scabbard pre-May 1945 and no amount of looking at rivets from different angles is going to tell you that.


          Post #137 "The deflection":

          Originally posted by Bob Iqbal
          ...these were most likely field, depot, parent or whatever modified pieces I am sure there is a lot of diversity.
          Pure conjecture based on....?


          Post #144 "The arbiters of bad taste":

          Originally posted by Bob Iqbal
          Hi Guys!
          Some of you bring up great examples and hypothesis, even though we do not agree. This type of conflict is good for the hobby, thanks! As was mentioned earlier, I made a mistake in the technicalities of the english language. My background is based in science and medicine. So, I like to deal with what I know and not speculation. I will not speculate on information I do not have answers to. Here are a couple of knives I have had around for a long time. One of them had the button at one time and is broke, you can see part of the pin. Both knives show use and age.
          Pure waffle I'm afraid. Again you yield to older dealers whom you believe to be the arbiters despite them having shown no evidence that would afford them that lofty position in regard to the "DJ" knife.


          Post #145 "Chicken or egg":

          Originally posted by Bob Iqbal
          Before the pictures were posted I was going to say perhaps there was a mistake in the location of the RZM mark. The one shown in the

          pictures looks extremely spurious to me, I am sure it was added by a collector/dealer.
          This is a more accepted location, on the back of the HJ button.
          Thanks again!
          Bob
          Again, conjecture. You are not in a position to know where the RZM mark should or should not be or even whether it should be there at all. Other correspondents are guessing too but you say that the knives are "real" so you have the burden of proof. You need to first establish whether there ever was such a thing as a "DJ" knife pre-May 1945 before going on to the examination of rivets and press-studs. Remember, the dispute with these knives is not whether the base product is authentic but whether that diamond was slapped onto the scabbard pre or post-war. The base product, the unmarked knife is known tfrom the period. It is certainly shown in period catalogues so let's dispense with that and concentrate solely on the knife with the scabbard diamond and the designation given to it by the militaria authors mentioned earlier. Do you believe that version to be a period, authentic assembly? Do you believe that the DJ, HJ or whoever was to wear that knife in the late-war period in place of the standard HJ/DJ Fahrtenmesser?

          If so, where is the proof?


          Post #148 "Still real but...":

          In response to a member's concerns about the sale of "DJ" knives you wrote:

          Originally posted by Bob Iqbal
          On post #118, when I see my webmaster and modify my site I will make a note stating some of the collector beliefs on this knife. Since due to their construction I am certain they were not "issue" knives but more of a "private purchase" item I doubt you will find documentation on them.
          Post #119 is mine so expand on what you want me to answer.
          Post #120, again, what do you want me to say? I can only tell you what I know and have from experience. I will not fabricate information to make people happy.
          Talk soon,
          Bob
          So these are private purchase items now? Not "DJ" knives i.e. issued to the DJ? What changed your mind? Oh, hang on. You never did get around to defining "real" did you and of course the constant use of such a vague buzzword means that you can adapt your argument at will without upsetting "real" because of course "real" doesn't mean anything until you define it.


          Post #150 "Cool story bro":

          Originally posted by Bob Iqbal
          "I think" we both now agree that these were not issue pieces but were probably private purchase. The ones that meet the criteria of construction/modification that Ron and I have outlined are most likely going to be of period construction. I am sure some crafty people have made some over the years but with experience and a keep eye these can probably be identified.

          All options neatly held wide open but still a very shaky foundation. Nothing learned here. Still no definition of "real".


          Post #153 "shoot the messenger, quick!":

          Originally posted by Bob Iqbal
          Fred, Again, I know you have the best intentions. I think the rest of us have reached agreement. Arguments like we had on the 1st model railway dagger/black handle army when you argued against traits that are known 110% for sure to be original on, then you disappeared from the discussion are not helpful. No reason to argue, just to argue. All that can be said that I think all will agree on. If one of these knives has a button added, if added by an "expert faker", no-one will ever know when the button was added. These are not "issue" pieces, hard to go any further then we already have. All I can say is, if you feel comfortable with these buy one from someone you trust!
          Best Wishes,
          Bob
          Back story: member "Frogprince" had been concentrating on the physical characteristics of the small knives and variations of the same during the thread. However Bob, you now seem eager to close him out because you seem to feel that you at some point reached a position on the knives that you are happy to represent. This being: "private purchase, not issued". You do not know this to be factually true.


          Post #159 "Is real real or is it really something else?":

          Back story: Another member with whom you thought you shared a common view ("private purchase, not issued") states that he is not willing to go that far yet.

          You said:

          Originally posted by Bob Iqbal
          Hello Everyone! At this point I think all we can do is agree to disagree. In the form you want proof, I do not have the research ability to do so if it exists.
          I sincerely believe most of them to be of war time manufacture. I am sure they were modified at many levels so there is not 100% consistency in the methods. So, making comparisons between knives and the crude or crisp modification will not help.
          Best Wishes,
          Bob
          PS-On the Olympic knife I have absolutely no knowledge so I have nothing to add.
          You are slowly warming to the idea that "real" might not necessarily mean "real" after all. Do you see how easy it was to manipulate your buzzword there? Despite your emphatic claims up to this point your position is visibly softening under pressure.


          In post #199 a lifetime member makes a general point about changing collector attitudes to items once thought to be unassailably original. He disagrees with the outing of dealers who sell a once unassailable but now hotly disputed item - like the "DJ" knife.


          Post #201 "Plebs vs Arbiters. Which one am I though?":

          You respond to post #199 with:

          Originally posted by Bob Iqbal
          Hi Larry! It only took one person to destroy the S+L RKs credibility for several years, again, from experience I did defend these crosses against many other people. As I have done with a variant DKiG and these. What I consider useful are the arguments presented by people who have done serious research into the topic, not just from forum lore. People with first hand experience with these and not "stuff" pulled out of a hat. This way we can all learn!
          Best Wishes,
          Bob
          Ok, so your ad infinitum repetition of "these knives are real" without ever defining "real" is a huge leap forward for collectors? No, it isn't. Read post #212. He nails it. That is the real state of play and it is what you are up against if you want to make a case for selling these knives with a clear-ish conscience.


          Post #219"The DJ knife came in a bag? Oooooh!"

          A member shows an example of the "DJ" knife next to a knife paper bag which has been put up for sale by Wittmann. The tension builds.... Could this be the evidence that you seek? See next entry.

          Post #220 and #222 "He did what?!":

          Talking about the "DJ" knife with apparently matching bag:

          Originally posted by Bob Iqbal
          "It looks "extremely" legitimate to me! Since they are real I have defended these knives from the start. Since it was proposed we "out" those who brought these to market, I guess we can't collect anymore. Since, it would appear we have no proved these to be of 3rd Reich manufacture. Tom's bag looks as real as possibly can be!"
          Sadly, the paper bag was quite clearly the standard bag for the standard HJ/DJ issue knife and was of no help whatsoever for your assertion that "these knives are real".


          There followed a lengthy absence on Bob's part before he returned for...

          Post #255 "Different man":

          Originally posted by Bob Iqbal
          For several years now I will not buy or sell these knives. I try to deal in the "current consensus" whether I agree or not. For decades no-one ever had a problem with the die flawed S+L RK or the DKiG with the lines in the date. I think it was Dave Kane who decided both were fake and they were worse then the plague at that point. I did argue until I was blue they were real, now they are considered real again. These fall intot the same category. I won't buy or sell one but......
          By the way, I would prefer to be shot vs. !
          Best Wishes,
          Bob

          Zero acknowledgement of Wittmann's massive faux pas (also none from the man himself incidentally) even though he is one of the people I'm sure you respect as an authority. You try to deal in the current consensus? Like the old boys who sold these knives without ever being able to show that they were as described? Hang on though... There's something new here. I don't see "these knives are real" in your post. Is that what you wanted to write instead of those dots after "but"?

          Thankfully we find out in post #257 "Back on track boys!":

          Originally posted by Bob Iqbal
          because of the forum I will not buy or sell them. I think I have one and it just lies buried and will stay there unless consensus changes.
          Things are getting quiet and the thread slows to a crawl. You put in one final appearance in:

          Post #261 "These knives are real! But let's talk privately..."

          Originally posted by Bob Iqbal
          On the DJ knives, my hypothesis is these knives were made on the civian market and modified. If you want my reasoning drop me an email.
          Very disappointing particularly as we never did get to find one thing out. I mentioned it a few times above but Bob please do me a favour and define "real" as in:

          Originally posted by Bob Iqbal
          "these knives are real".
          We know that they physically exist so clearly you mean something else but what exactly does "real" mean to you?

          Thanks.
          Last edited by Röhm1929; 05-07-2017, 09:45 AM.

          Comment

            #305
            Wow Rohm,
            You should go back and read what I said on the other post and not use the same old information I posted long ago. I said other items that were considered real for decades one day people decided were bad for example the S+L die flawed cross. Now again, people know they are real, those and other items similar to that I have argued for, this falls in the same category.
            As you tried to twist on the other thread or perhaps you are not a native English speaker? That would explain your behavior. I do not and have not sold one of these in years and will not. At least, if I were to I would explain both sides of the argument to the buyer.
            Are you an attorney or want to be attorney, you certainly sound like one trying to carry on a dead horse.
            www.collectortocollectormilitaria.com

            sigpic

            Comment

              #306
              Originally Posted by Bob Iqbal
              These knives are like the flawed S+L RK, they were unquestioned for decades until someone here said they were bad. Since this person was popular and had a lot of good information they were believed to be bad on his word for a couple of years, now they are real again.
              I said other items that were considered real for decades one day people decided were bad for example the S+L die flawed cross. Now again, people know they are real, those and other items similar to that I have argued for, this falls in the same category.
              Excuse me when I have to inject a little bit of a side note her: apart from a comparison which is really not telling anything, the statement is nonsense and does not help when being repeated in May of 2017, 12 years after the discovery of the truth!
              The flawed S&L Knights Crosses were "unquestioned" for decades by those who either had them or sold them. All, owners and dealers, were just stumbling in the dark and talking out of their rear ends. Only after a thorough investigation (in 2005!) it was found that only one type (the late A-Type) was made during the war and that the huge majority of flawed S&L Knights Crosses belongs to the post war B-Type and were produced for a very long time after the war.

              To say that "they are real again" is not describing the topic correctly since only a small part are real and the great majority are fakes (and are sold as real by some dealers who still cannot differentiate between A- and B-Type).

              Excuse me again for interjecting this but the above false statement should not stand uncorrected (and I had hoped that after 12 years the evidence has found its way into the mainstream ...)
              B&D PUBLISHING
              Premium Books from Collectors for Collectors

              Comment

                #307
                Hi Dietrich!
                I do agree but to be precise Dave Kane decided every S+L die flawed cross was fake, even the A frames. I was referring tot he A frames.
                Bob
                PS- This hobby was so much easier 30 years ago!
                www.collectortocollectormilitaria.com

                sigpic

                Comment

                  #308
                  Originally posted by BobI View Post
                  Wow Rohm,
                  You should go back and read what I said on the other post and not use the same old information I posted long ago. I said other items that were considered real for decades one day people decided were bad for example the S+L die flawed cross. Now again, people know they are real, those and other items similar to that I have argued for, this falls in the same category.
                  As you tried to twist on the other thread or perhaps you are not a native English speaker? That would explain your behavior. I do not and have not sold one of these in years and will not. At least, if I were to I would explain both sides of the argument to the buyer.
                  Are you an attorney or want to be attorney, you certainly sound like one trying to carry on a dead horse.

                  Notwithstanding your oversight in failing to address a single point raised in my admittedly (but necessarily) long post I would just say that I made things very clear and specific. You said very recently that you had been proven right about the so-called "DJ" knife. From the beginning your position has been "these knives are real" and as I have demonstrated, at no point did you actually define that term. Which of the following statements most accurately describes your position on the small knives variously known as "DJ", "BDM" and "DJ/HJ":

                  The small unmarked knives without scabbard diamond are "real".

                  The small unmarked knives with scabbard diamond are "real".

                  Make a mental tick next to one of those and please then define "real" as it applies to the statement that you picked.
                  Last edited by Röhm1929; 05-08-2017, 01:23 AM. Reason: Edited to make the choice very specific.

                  Comment

                    #309
                    Surely three days are enough BobI? It's a simple enough question.

                    As they say in courtroom dramas, let the record show that Bob Iqbal is unable to substantiate or even to explain his claim of "these knives are real" as requested by me here and here.

                    BobI, the reason I picked you out was because of your vociferous demands that the doubters produce evidence even though you failed to produce any evidence of your own to support your repeated claim that DJ knives are "real". You had the burden of proof but failed, along with all other supporters, to deliver on that so let's return to the courtroom drama where I will now, theatrically, don my wig, enter the chamber and direct the jury to ignore your testimony. You have no idea whether these knives are "real". All you have done is to continually post that buzzword without ever defining it or ever producing verifiable evidence. Instead, you deferred to the opinions of big-name dealers who have nothing to offer in the way of evidence either. This state of affairs cannot justify the massively inflated price that dealers ask for a knife which (without the diamond) is actually a quite uninteresting item. It is worth perhaps 50-100 bucks even if a customer could be found. The versions with scabbard diamond should be worth even less as they are essentially examples of the uninteresting knife that have been devalued further by fakers through the addition of the diamond.
                    Last edited by Röhm1929; 05-11-2017, 02:18 AM.

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                      #310
                      Originally posted by Röhm1929 View Post
                      Surely three days are enough BobI? It's a simple enough question.

                      As they say in courtroom dramas, let the record show that Bob Iqbal is unable to substantiate or even to explain his claim of "these knives are real" as requested by me here and here.
                      Rohm1929,

                      I think you made your point. Bob may not be willing to respond further, and I can see why, and it has nothing to due with his side of the debate. However, this has been a great thread and very informative, but we don't want it to end with squabbling. Need to take the intensity level down a couple of notches.

                      Regards,
                      Serge

                      Comment

                        #311
                        Originally posted by Serge M. View Post
                        Rohm1929,

                        I think you made your point. Bob may not be willing to respond further, and I can see why, and it has nothing to due with his side of the debate. However, this has been a great thread and very informative, but we don't want it to end with squabbling. Need to take the intensity level down a couple of notches.

                        Regards,
                        Serge
                        No probs Serge.

                        Comment

                          #312
                          Thank You Rohm!
                          A friend saw your post and actually asked me to dig one out to sell to him. Naturally, I will give him a great deal but I do appreciate you helping with the sale.
                          Bob
                          PS- I am dead serious too!
                          www.collectortocollectormilitaria.com

                          sigpic

                          Comment

                            #313
                            Originally posted by BobI View Post
                            Thank You Rohm! A friend saw your post and actually asked me to dig one out to sell to him. Naturally, I will give him a great deal but I do appreciate you helping with the sale. Bob
                            PS- I am dead serious too!

                            Deleted sentence by Serge M. - PM sent -

                            However, even if true it won't be anything YOU said on the thread that would convince someone to buy one of these - unless of course the "deal" was 50 bucks for the dodgy knife, a link to this thread and a big bag full of caveat.

                            Let me remind you: here

                            Last edited by Serge M.; 05-13-2017, 09:55 PM. Reason: edited insult

                            Comment

                              #314
                              It’s a fact that some guys over the years have made a lot of money selling the “DJ” knives and the “DJ” sub-types to collectors. But for those who are just getting started, or want to try and catch up to the industry leaders maybe they should consider diversifying their product line to entice more customers into purchasing one. With the first one I’m posting here the “wiggle” model that copies the commonly used test for the regulation HJ/DJ knives. Guaranteed to “wiggle”, notice the amount of daylight between the scabbard and the emblem.



                              Next is the “DJ - 1935 Berlin Party Day” model, a ‘twofer’. Two boxes to check off your list with just one knife - sure to please those on a budget.



                              And who could resist the “RZM model" ?? Something that will please those collectors who might have been concerned that somehow not only did the NSDAP lose control of the Hitler Youth movement, but also the RZM itself which accounts for the 99.999% lack of period style RZM markings on what is supposed to be a symbol of the Party that was made a matter of law. It’s a little hard to see in the image, so I’ve inverted it to try and make it easier to see the backwards “RZM” marking by putting them side by side. And in case that it’s been overlooked - it can also be seen what happens when the scabbards with the emblems that “wiggle” get bumped, and the emblem falls off. Which is why dealers and those selling them are cautioned to carefully use lots and lots of padding to protect their knives from having the emblems fall off when exposing them to such hazardous situations like taking them to shows, handling and shipping them etc. etc.



                              PS: This is just a sample sampling of the “investment opportunities” available with the different small aluminum hilted knives that have been, and are still out there being offered for sale to the "collector market". FP
                              Last edited by Frogprince; 05-14-2017, 10:13 AM.

                              Comment

                                #315
                                Correction of a typo/spellcheck error - the last line of my preceding remarks should read: "PS: This is just a small sampling of the “investment opportunities” available with the different small aluminum hilted knives that have been, and are still out there being offered for sale to the "collector market". FP

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