Deutsches Jungvolk knife - real or fantasy?

[Victorman]

Hi Fred,

The Klaas catalogue writes (translated) "Bakelite grips" and " bowie blade". So nothing about HJ or DJ destination.


Hi Scott,

This hilt is a heavy, steel base nickel plated, just like the early HJ's by Klaas, but than smaller.


In my opinion, Klaas must have produced these early, smaller knifes before the official regulation was applied, most likely targeting (the smaller hands of) DJ members. But the model must have been a failure, because they are extremely rare.
During that same, pre-regulation period the so called "eaglehead" ( by E. Pack, A. Wingen and E&F Horster) and the "honour" (by Carl Wüsthöf) HJ's also must have been produced.

I fully agree that the official regulation foresaw only one knife (the classic HJ-knife) both for HJ and DJ.

But let's not forget that the Dutch Youth applied, during its German occupation (1940 until 1944) a smaller "DJ like" knife, the so called Jeugdstorm-dagger with inscription "Bloed, eer en trouw", made only by Eickhorn. These smaller, period daggers also are extremely rare.

Best regards,

Victorman

[Mac 66]

Many Thanks Herman for your info & opinion, appreciated !


I had a good feeling the hilt on your small Klaas knife was made from steel & not aluminium like the so called DJ or BDM knifes, that fact is the final nail in the coffin for me on this subject & good info for other collectors for future reference,


Best Regards Scott.

[Frogprince]

Herman, Likewise - Many Thanks from me for the additional information and opinion. It's very much appreciated. Who knows? Maybe now some of the hot air inflating the Ponzi style ballon that try's to make these knives desirable TR themed collectibles will start leaking out. Best Regards, Fred

[Victorman]

You are welcome, Fred and Scott!

I also appreciate your efforts to bring more honesty and fairness into this wonderful hobby.

As a final add to this topic: here is the Klaas (middle) next to 2 aluminium hilt based DJ's: these are also very well made and appear as aged as the Klaas.

The hilts of the 2 alus are thinner (especially the right one) and off course much lighter compared to the Klaas.

When I find the time, I will post more pictures of these 3 DJ's (on my GDC forum).

Best regards,

Victorman

[Mac 66]

Hi Herman,


The small knife with the hj diamond on the scabbard & thinnest hilt looks poorest quality constructed compared to your other 2 knifes, what is this one with the white grips with hj insignia ?



Regards Mac 66.

[popcorn]

Good morning all. I pulled an old post war German "scout knife" out of my tool box. The one's made in the same style as the HJ. It also has the aluminum hilt and is well made with nice blade cross grain.

[Garry M.]

Please correct me if I have misunderstood something here. Although he doesn't explicitly say it, victorman seems to be a supporter of the "DJ" knife. However, he has not offered any explanation for how, when and why the small Klaas knife came to have a HJ diamond (either on the scabbard or the handle). I don't understand why this has not been challenged because I see a correspondent here who now seems to agree with victorman despite being absolutely "anti-DJ knife" in the past.

[saar]

Please correct me if I have misunderstood something here. Although he doesn't explicitly say it, victorman seems to be a supporter of the "DJ" knife.

You are not alone, I got the same impression.

[Jo Rivett]

I fully agree that the official regulation foresaw only one knife (the classic HJ-knife) both for HJ and DJ.
Victorman

In my opinion, Klaas must have produced these early, smaller knifes before the official regulation was applied, most likely targeting (the smaller hands of) DJ members.......

Foresaw is not the correct word. Documented history is, what it is, whether you agree with documented historical fact, partially, or fully, is irrelevant.

in my opinion.....

Why would documented historical fact, need your opinion?
Aaaah, i think i know...... it has something to do with CASH doesn't it?

[Frogprince]

Obviously I can’t speak for Herman (Victorman), but my reading of what he said was a little more benign having no recollection of him in multiple forums ever supporting the small aluminum handled knives with the HJ emblems as period. Having no quarrel with Jeugdstorm-knives with the "Bloed, eer en trouw" by Eickhorn, or the Klass catalog although a date I think would be helpful. With foresaw a synonym for anticipate, the fact is there were multiple different regulations for the HJ-DJ knives as it regarded changes in their manufacture which I don’t think were anticipated - they just happened with the paperwork making it official.

PS: I have a portion of a 1932 Klass catalog with all sorts of small knives in it, and saw evidence of the same thing happening in the U.S. from different makers that I don’t have a problem with - and my point being maybe it’s just a clarification that’s needed? FP

[Mac 66]

[QUOTE=Garry M.;

I see a correspondent here who now seems to agree with victorman despite being absolutely "anti-DJ knife" in the past.[/QUOTE]



You meaning me ?, if not who ?

[popcorn]

I read Victorman's post to mean the Klaas knife with the steel hilt(not catalogued as a "DJ" knife) was the centre pictured knife and the 2 aluminum knives, constructed with the same materials as the post war "scout knives", were not stated as made by Klaas. Victoraman, if you could confirm the maker's mark if any on the other 2 knives please.

[Jo Rivett]

http://www.ratisbons.com/13th-Contem...fe-advert.html

Ha ha ha ha, which ever one of you big wigs are responsible for this rubbish, thanks, it put a smile on my dial. Clearly invented by an English speaker, or someone who does not understand history as it relates to the HJ knife.

Not only was Germany not exporting these products in September 1944, they were, in fact, per official documented directive, prohibited from being produced 18 months prior.

And who was Germany supposed to be exporting blank HJ knives too anyway in September 1944.. give me a flipping break, this is worse than the Atwood SA Birdshgead dagger "factory photo"

[Ludwig vK]

Hi Fred,
Any chance you can reupload your photos posted earlier? I am on page 14 of this thread and appreciate the education by you and others, however it is difficult to digest all of this when the photographs are gone... somewhat like missing teeth.
Thanks,
Stephen

EDIT: Sorry Fred, I am on page 18 now and I see you are aware of this. Much appreciated. A very interesting read indeed.

[Schlange]

Opinions about WW2 Croatian NDH youth (this organization was established on 6. july 1945.) knifes produced in TR?








Schlange

http://www.mojalbum.com/schlange88/album