Warning: session_start(): open(/var/cpanel/php/sessions/ea-php74/sess_6934f7d526dfb3e834f8ba0221948450d6450bb8f46f9099, O_RDWR) failed: No space left on device (28) in /home/devwehrmacht/public_html/forums/includes/vb5/frontend/controller/page.php on line 71 Warning: session_start(): Failed to read session data: files (path: /var/cpanel/php/sessions/ea-php74) in /home/devwehrmacht/public_html/forums/includes/vb5/frontend/controller/page.php on line 71 Deutsches Jungvolk knife - real or fantasy? - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums
WöschlerOrden

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Deutsches Jungvolk knife - real or fantasy?

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 37
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous 1 13 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 33 37 template Next
    #331
    Originally posted by Serge M
    Edit; by Serge M. The thread is too valuable to close due to someone who can't follow the rules. Continued Personal Bashing is a violation of forum rules. You were warned. Now infraction given. Any further debate with me and you will be taking time off from the forum.
    I wasn't "bashing" anyone. This is about the knives and my previous posts fully explain why I concentrated on Bob Iqbal and his claims about the knives.

    I haven't been "debating" with you. I have no idea what that means. You sent me a PM which I answered and today you sent me another, which I also answered. I did not ask any questions in those PMs nor did I invite "debate" in any form or at any time with you.

    I can see that my participation on the thread is unwelcome but I have said all that I wanted so will now exit stage left.
    Last edited by Röhm1929; 05-22-2017, 09:48 AM.

    Comment

      #332
      In my view, you are disrupting this thread, and continue to debate me on this position. Let me assure you, that you will NOT have the last word on this thread.

      Regards,
      Serge

      Comment

        #333
        Originally posted by Serge M. View Post
        In my view, you are disrupting this thread, and continue to debate me on this position. Let me assure you, that you will NOT have the last word on this thread.

        Regards,
        Serge
        So that's what it's all about I entered this forum almost 15 years ago and really enjoyed the early discussions we had. As much as I understand some threads must be closed due to various reasons and some members need to be expelled, I find this thread painfully similar to other occasions when one individual have some serious input to present and the opponant merely leans back on his "good name". Quite a few have actually been tossed off this forum and that doesn't incourage people to give their input. For the record, I don't know twat about the knives discussed here, but I do read English.

        cheers
        Peter

        Comment

          #334
          Hi,

          I've not read all pages of this thread & perhaps my question is dumb but:

          Is it just 1 period photo with this knife in wear, or is it presented in a Solingen maker catalog?

          If not it's for me the proof that this knife is a post war fabrication.

          Even ultra rare dagger are found in wear in period photos...why this one that is common not?

          JC

          Comment

            #335
            Originally posted by Peter J. View Post
            So that's what it's all about I entered this forum almost 15 years ago and really enjoyed the early discussions we had. As much as I understand some threads must be closed due to various reasons and some members need to be expelled, I find this thread painfully similar to other occasions when one individual have some serious input to present and the opponant merely leans back on his "good name". Quite a few have actually been tossed off this forum and that doesn't incourage people to give their input. For the record, I don't know twat about the knives discussed here, but I do read English.

            cheers
            Peter

            Only three things could have been done with this thread:

            1. Allow it to go on with one member doing a 3rd degree style demands over and over.
            2. Close a valuable learning pinned thread.
            3. Sanction the rule breaking thread disruptor.

            It is unfortunate that sometimes there is not much that much else can be done. If one party does not reply to the standards that is demanded by another, and the demanding 'proof' party keeps demanding, over and over, and won't let go- that's considered 'bashing' and against forum rules.
            Yes, that's the way it goes sometimes. Someone played it smart, and let the The Rules work for them. Someone else played it dumb, and the rules worked against them. Too bad that someone had to be afflicted with the 'Last Word Syndrome'. We do see that at times on the forum. Kind warnings, then infractions, don't seem to help the afflicted with extreme case of 'LWS". It didn't have to go this way.

            However, the good news is thread is open to further discussion.

            Best Regards,
            Serge

            Comment

              #336
              Fair enough Serge, I was merely thinking out loud

              cheers
              Peter

              Comment

                #337
                Originally posted by Francisque View Post
                Hi,

                I've not read all pages of this thread & perhaps my question is dumb but:

                Is it just 1 period photo with this knife in wear, or is it presented in a Solingen maker catalog?

                If not it's for me the proof that this knife is a post war fabrication.

                Even ultra rare dagger are found in wear in period photos...why this one that is common not?

                JC
                JC, According to the late Carl Sagan the American astronomer, cosmologist, astrophysicist, astrobiologist, author, etc. etc. “………….There is no such thing as a dumb question".

                With the answer to the first question being the total sum of "in use" photos. Zero. That said, Klaas in a period catalog has a similar knife, but it has different characteristics including having an iron/steel handle - not aluminum.

                But where it gets really "interesting" I think is with the convoluted "stories" sellers have about the the knife's origin trying to convince collectors of their originality (and not to forget all of the different clones of the basic knife). Which can sometimes be really amusing because the stories show that the writers as TR era militaria specialists don't have a basic grasp of a number of period facts. But when there are no period photos, no NSDAP documentation, or any other period evidence I imagine (JMO) that they think that they have to do something to justify selling them. FP
                Last edited by Frogprince; 05-22-2017, 04:04 PM. Reason: typo correction

                Comment

                  #338
                  PS: When I made the reference to "stories" it is/was a general statement versus being directed to a single individual. FP

                  Comment

                    #339
                    Originally posted by Peter J. View Post
                    So that's what it's all about I entered this forum almost 15 years ago and really enjoyed the early discussions we had. As much as I understand some threads must be closed due to various reasons and some members need to be expelled, I find this thread painfully similar to other occasions when one individual have some serious input to present and the opponant merely leans back on his "good name". Quite a few have actually been tossed off this forum and that doesn't incourage people to give their input. For the record, I don't know twat about the knives discussed here, but I do read English.

                    cheers
                    Peter
                    After a catch-up of the last few pages that is exactly how I see it too. The thread got a little heated because of one party's refusal to engage.

                    Originally posted by Serge M. View Post
                    Only three things could have been done with this thread:

                    1. Allow it to go on with one member doing a 3rd degree style demands over and over.
                    2. Close a valuable learning pinned thread.
                    3. Sanction the rule breaking thread disruptor.

                    It is unfortunate that sometimes there is not much that much else can be done. If one party does not reply to the standards that is demanded by another, and the demanding 'proof' party keeps demanding, over and over, and won't let go- that's considered 'bashing' and against forum rules.
                    Yes, that's the way it goes sometimes. Someone played it smart, and let the The Rules work for them. Someone else played it dumb, and the rules worked against them. Too bad that someone had to be afflicted with the 'Last Word Syndrome'. We do see that at times on the forum. Kind warnings, then infractions, don't seem to help the afflicted with extreme case of 'LWS". It didn't have to go this way.

                    However, the good news is thread is open to further discussion.

                    Best Regards,
                    Serge
                    I don't like to see members getting banned because they lost the "rule-playing" game. That is never good unless they truly deserve it which I don't think he did in this case. The questions asked were fair in my opinion but the other party won by avoiding the issue and allowing the forum rules to work in his favour. You even describe that as "smart" behaviour! Not good for collecting imo and a smack in the face for open, free discussion. With respect, I think there was definitely a fourth option available but hey, not my train set

                    Certainly on the knives I don't see anything new from those who believe the ones with diamonds to be period so I'm still firmly on the side of the available (verifiable) evidence which clearly indicates that those knives are humped up, post-war creations made from the base product, the Klaas knife.
                    Last edited by Garry M.; 05-23-2017, 01:57 AM.

                    Comment

                      #340
                      Originally posted by Garry M. View Post
                      After a catch-up of the last few pages that is exactly how I see it too. The thread got a little heated because of one party's refusal to engage.



                      I don't like to see members getting banned because they lost the "rule-playing" game. That is never good unless they truly deserve it which I don't think he did in this case. The questions asked were fair in my opinion but the other party won by avoiding the issue and allowing the forum rules to work in his favour. You even describe that as "smart" behaviour! Not good for collecting imo and a smack in the face for open, free discussion. With respect, I think there was definitely a fourth option available but hey, not my train set

                      Certainly on the knives I don't see anything new from those who believe the ones with diamonds to be period so I'm still firmly on the side of the available (verifiable) evidence which clearly indicates that those knives are humped up, post-war creations made from the base product, the Klaas knife.

                      Arguing with a Moderator is not allowed. Neither is questioning the disciplinary action allowed. You been a member since 2007 and you don't know this ?
                      Perhaps the 'Options' are different on HJ Research, but here, we need to stay on topic, and your post questioning Moderator Disciplinary Actions, if off limits of any discussion or 'opinions'.

                      Regards,
                      Serge M.

                      Comment

                        #341
                        Originally posted by Serge M. View Post
                        Arguing with a Moderator is not allowed. Neither is questioning the disciplinary action allowed. You been a member since 2007 and you don't know this ?
                        Perhaps the 'Options' are different on HJ Research, but here, we need to stay on topic, and your post questioning Moderator Disciplinary Actions, if off limits of any discussion or 'opinions'.
                        Jeez... we can't even have an opinion now?

                        The "options" at HJ-Research are perfectly fine thanks. I haven't had any complaints from my members about how I run my forum or about how my moderators moderate. As you queried it, I can tell you that we are able to stay on topic despite disagreements. I am always hesitant to ban people because there is usually a better way to reach resolution. If pointing that out is a sacking offence Serge then please go ahead.



                        - Paragraph deleted by Serge M. -
                        PM sent.
                        Last edited by Serge M.; 05-23-2017, 10:34 PM. Reason: Violation of Forum Rules

                        Comment

                          #342
                          Originally posted by garry m. View Post
                          after a catch-up of the last few pages that is exactly how i see it too. The thread got a little heated because of one party's refusal to engage.



                          I don't like to see members getting banned because they lost the "rule-playing" game. That is never good unless they truly deserve it which i don't think he did in this case. The questions asked were fair in my opinion but the other party won by avoiding the issue and allowing the forum rules to work in his favour. You even describe that as "smart" behaviour! Not good for collecting imo and a smack in the face for open, free discussion. With respect, i think there was definitely a fourth option available but hey, not my train set

                          certainly on the knives i don't see anything new from those who believe the ones with diamonds to be period so i'm still firmly on the side of the available (verifiable) evidence which clearly indicates that those knives are humped up, post-war creations made from the base product, the klaas knife.
                          1+


                          Schlange

                          http://www.mojalbum.com/schlange88/album

                          Comment

                            #343
                            Originally posted by Garry M. View Post
                            ................ Certainly on the knives I don't see anything new from those who believe the ones with diamonds to be period so I'm still firmly on the side of the available (verifiable) evidence which clearly indicates that those knives are humped up, post-war creations made from the base product, the Klaas knife.
                            From what I've seen, while the early period Klaas knife was used as an outward physical pattern for the small aluminum hilted knives they were made differently. And to date none has surfaced in the aluminum hilted series of knives with either the Klaas logo or the RZM identifier that’s seen with actual period HJ knives by Klaas. Klaas still in business after the war (during wartime it made some maker identified tool kit knives for the German Army/Wehrmacht as a subcontractor to the Eickhorn firm). But the generic no name knives are just that, generic, with the post manufacture added on emblems as was demonstrated in the images posted earlier.

                            Which of course was not always the case, because now, besides the no name knives we have at least two variations of the “Voos” trademark as well as that of the “Hörster” company. Or by being implied as period with the addition of “bag” and a “tag” as has sometimes been done, and seen here associated with the Seilheimer name. Which are very “real” in the sense that we can see and touch them, but that does not by itself, make them pre-1945 manufacture. Because as anybody who’s been collecting for over five minutes should know counterfeiters/fakers routinely copy actual period items specifically with the intent to deceive the collecting public. (And that includes the manufacturing of copies of fantasy items which sometimes take a long time to be exposed as fakes as has been seen with different topics on some of the online forums.) FP






                            Comment

                              #344
                              Hi FP,

                              You're right of course. I was a little dismayed at yesterday's "goings on" in this thread and was concentrating more on that than the knife itself.

                              My compliments to you for keeping this thread going in the correct direction. My presence here is clearly undesirable but I will continue to watch the thread with interest.

                              Comment

                                #345
                                Interesting FP, Keep up the good work


                                As a side note i have seen these small knifes on Ebay & similar auction sites over the past few years & they do not make much money, seems most folk have seen the light & the collectors who have bought them want rid of them out of there collections, Best to buy a HJ Knife that was used by the DJ

                                Comment

                                Previous 1 13 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 33 37 template Next

                                Users Viewing this Thread

                                Collapse

                                There are currently 5 users online. 0 members and 5 guests.

                                Most users ever online was 10,032 at 08:13 PM on 09-28-2024.

                                Working...
                                X