KM officer's dagger - "standard issue"?

[Norm F]

Hi Russ,

Thanks for the links. Like you say, the same narrow bands, and it's clear that they're just mounted upside down on my example. Interesting that both of those examples with narrow bands are also with unmarked unetched blades.

So that leaves me wondering about a couple of things:

1) How often does this anomaly of flipped bands occur?
2) Are the narrow bands seen only on unmarked examples or can they be found occasionally on WKC marked examples as well?

If they're only seen on unmarked examples, it's begs the question as to whether these are really made in the WKC factory or perhaps subcontracted to another assembly company that used a mixture of WKC parts and narrow bands from another source. An unanswerable question I guess.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Bulldog]

Norm i found the dagger i was thinking about with the bands the same way as yours. So far i have only seen these on plain unmarked WKC's.

https://therupturedduck.com/collecti...18700305924169

Russ.

[Bulldog]

I've matched the overlapping leaf and acorn pattern of these bands to some used by Holler (slightly wider than the usual straighter edged ones used by Holler) I've also found these same bands, normal way around, on a custom chased Holler in T.W's navy book page 403, custom chased scabbards are not my thing so hopefully that one is period. I do believe there was a connection with these two companies as seen with the design of WKC's initial production M38 pommel, so perhaps WKC got some bands from Holler or vice versa. Norm if you want pics of the bands on the custom chased Holler P.M. me your email address if you don't have that book.

Russ.

[Victorman]

Hi Norm,

As requested: here are some band variations on WKC scabbards. Yours is like the yellow grip one in the picture.

Best regards,

Victorman

[Norm F]

Hi Norm,

As requested: here are some band variations on WKC scabbards. Yours is like the yellow grip one in the picture.

Best regards,

Victorman

Thanks Victorman. So if we assume that yellow-gripped WKC-marked dagger was always with that scabbard, then indeed the narrower bands were used by WKC, even if mostly seen on unmarked examples.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Norm i found the dagger i was thinking about with the bands the same way as yours. So far i have only seen these on plain unmarked WKC's.

https://therupturedduck.com/collecti...18700305924169

Russ.

Thanks Russ. Nice to see that example with the same "upside-down" orientation of the narrower scabbard bands.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Bulldog]

Hi Victorman, could you post a close up clear pic of the band and bottom half of the scabbard on the yellow gripped dagger you show, it could be a generic scabbard. Thanks.

Russ.

[Bulldog]

Also found Norm's bands, usual way around, on this Weyersberg with all other Weyersberg fittings so this i think is a good indication that they are period, and likely a late production thinner brass band. It does have a strange scabbard body/shell without the pattern on it, maybe rushed out?

https://www.lakesidetrader.com/item....ation=Archives

Russ.

[Bulldog]

Just to throw a spanner in the works, here are those bands on a scabbard with what are said to be post war eyelets. Anyone have any thoughts about these bands and the eyelets on the dagger in the link.

https://www.ulricofengland.com/index...2sp5r5b30aq8u8

Russ.

[thebig]

Just to throw a spanner in the works, here are those bands on a scabbard with what are said to be post war eyelets. Anyone have any thoughts about these bands and the eyelets on the dagger in the link.

https://www.ulricofengland.com/index...2sp5r5b30aq8u8

Russ.

Hi Russ,
not only an eyelets are a problem. An M1929 dagger with a late logo and a late cellon portepee?
Best,
Oleg.

[thebig]

By the way, not only this dagger on this website has problems. Several KM daggers are part daggers.
Best,
Oleg.

[Bulldog]

Yes it really is a minefield out there. I'm now wondering why a company like WKC who normally put their maker mark on their daggers would not have stamped their mark on these blades if they were period assembled daggers. If sold to another company or distributor why did they not put their mark on them? I'm having doubts as to whether these plain unmarked, possibly unfinished, examples were actually period assembled daggers.

Russ.

[Norm F]

Yes it really is a minefield out there. I'm now wondering why a company like WKC who normally put their maker mark on their daggers would not have stamped their mark on these blades if they were period assembled daggers. If sold to another company or distributor why did they not put their mark on them? I'm having doubts as to whether these plain unmarked, possibly unfinished, examples were actually period assembled daggers.

Russ.

Hi Russ,

To be clear, are you suggesting that perhaps no plain blade unmarked daggers (like mine and the Ruptured Duck example) were manufactured in wartime?

Best regards,
—-Norm

[Bulldog]

Hi Russ,

To be clear, are you suggesting that perhaps no plain blade unmarked daggers (like mine and the Ruptured Duck example) were manufactured in wartime?

Best regards,
—-Norm

Wish i had a definitive answer to that Norm, but it is unusual that these are not marked in any way, other WKC's are maker marked, plain Alcoso navy daggers supplied to the retailer Adolf Braun are marked with Braun's name, even plain blade depot marked pieces sold to the navy are maker marked, so i can't think why these WKC's aren't. Add to that the different bands on some of them and what could be an unfinished scabbard on the Weyersberg i supplied the link too, now i am not sure, wish i knew.

Russ.

[thebig]

Norm,
don’t worry. Your dagger is ok.
Best,
Oleg.