This model, I believe is the FIRST SS Dagger from the Third Reich. I beleive Wusthof made several different models for the HJ, Party and SS as prototypes from the early 1930s as you can find different insignias on the pommel and different mottos on the blades, all with the same basic design of the knife (from an early WWI style knife). JMO, Ron
-
-
HJ Wusthof
HJ Model with HJ Diamond, but SS motto on the blade. Sorry for the pictures in the shadow box, but didn't have time to remove it. -
If anyone has any of these models, especially the one with the swastika in a circle on the pommel, please contact me.Comment
-
Ron, wish i could find either one of these SS knifes, most likely very rare?Comment
-
The First Third Reich Edged Weapon
Here is, what I believe, the first edged weapon produced by the Germans in the very early 1930s. I have only seen two of these and they are based on a commercial hiking knife from the late 1920s, according to period sales catalogs, JMO. Ron WeinandComment
-
are these particular knive´s anywhere confirmed as original items ?
... "according to period sales catalogs" ... any images ?
I´d be interested in LTC. Johnson´s and Tom W´s opinion ...Comment
-
HELLO! I bought the one in the shadow box from Tom Johnson in 1972! Also, the SS one Tom and I bought together a few years ago, so, rest assured, these are period pieces. There is a whole bunch of different combinations of HJ Diamonds, HJ Flags and Swastika Pommels by Wusthof on period knives of this design with different blade mottos. I have been considering doing a reference book on HJ Knives, especially the early configurations by Wusthof and E. Pack. Ron WeinandComment
-
unbelievable !
HJ Diamond together with the Motto of the Schutz-Staffel, the strange hanger, the different depth of the both swastikas, "Sieg-Heil" engraved upon the blade ...
!
"heisst" with two "s" ? ...
Anyway, I´m glad, not collecting such kind of IIIrd Reich blank weapon´s ...
Last edited by Reibert-Austria; 07-11-2010, 02:52 PM.Comment
-
Don't ever question the almighty Weinand! I believe if anybody else showed these, they would scrutinized and questioned about authenicity. I agree with Riebert-Austria, lets see some type of reference.Comment
-
These knives have been around for many years & appear in some of the oldest reference books so they are definitely not something recently made up. They were at one point referred to as HJ "honor bayonets" which is probably a name gived to them by dealers to puff up interest. The fact is you'll be hard pressed to find one, particularly one in good shape because they are rare.
We do know they strongly resemble Weimar era fighting knives which were around in quantity when the 3R started. We also know Solingen blade manufacturers were prone to use existing stock & parts before incurring the expense of new manufacture, no doubt attributable to German frugality of the time. It makes sense from a marketing standpoint to merely acid etch existing stock to make it more desirable to the new groups around Germany.
There are at least 3 types of this knife, 2 of which use the HJ motto "Blut und Ehre" & of course this one with the SS motto "Meine Ehre Heisst Treue" with the notable missing szet. Most if not all had etched & painted pommels with either the HJ diamond, an HJ flag or a swaz. Grip plates were usually hard rubber or early pattern bakelite with the occasional stag gripped example being seen. They are either marked Carl Wusthof, Gladiatorwerk or unmarked. All that I have examined were of the same early vintage which is consistent with their supposed time of manufacture. The SS pommel one is a new one for me, thanks for posting it.
I believe the prevailing theory is that these knives were originally HJ knives manufactured prior to standardization. Why the SS motto on what appears to be an early HJ knife? Theories abound but the most recent one I've heard was that these knives were a limited production for the Austrian SS prior to annexation. I can't tell you if that's true or not, just that that's one of many ideas as to these knives original purpose.
I purchased one from an estate auction years ago, mostly because I knew what it was & most others didn't seem to. Mine was mint & almost identical to the stag one Ron pictured above except to say mine did not have the frog type suspension device. The estate had an old time collection of 3R blades that was from the early days, I believe the 1950's. Once I received the piece & held it in hand, there was no doubt to me it was no reproduction. The quality of parts & production including the etch patterns was very evident, it was obviously a period piece. This is just my humble opinion but I'd say since I owned one of these pieces (& have handled about 6 others), I'd guess I'm entitled to one.
Comment
-
Wow Billy, very nice but I have to say, I love the stag!Comment
-
These are rare birds.
They are original. I wish I had one. 
-wagner-Comment
-
There are several variations, almost like each one is different. I know of another mint one with a frog style hanger that is removable, like a bayonet. Also, with all the variations of the pommels combined with the variations in mottos, variations in Trademarks, I am still convinced that Wusthof made these as a prototype to capture the TR market in the beginning. JMO, RonComment
-
very interesting thread, includes many informations !
Comment
-
Wonderful pieces you got, Ron, congratulations!
Some extra information on these earlies HJ sidearms by Carl Wüsthof: there are many variations (paradoxal to say about such rare pieces, I know...) in pommel and blade etches (different "Blut und Ehre" patters for example), some examples are void of any blade or pommel etchings.
Period pictures of these sidearms in wear by youth members do exist (I would post if I owned the copywrite)
What has been said here about the grip plates is not correct: some have indeed stag grips but all the black ones I have seen so far had solid wooded grips, no hard rubber or bakelite was used on these pieces.
The so called "eaglehead" early HJ's is different story: they do have the bakelite grips and where made by different producers: E. Pack is the most common one, but they also have been made by E&F Hörster and Anton Winger Jr, maybe even others...
Best greetings,
VictormanComment
Comment