Sa Dagger Opinions

[Jawohl]

Well, deep embarrassment!! Are you two saying the tiny wooden lips either side of the crossguards is how they were made? That seems just asking for bits to flake off....
I assumed the location of the guards was effected by the internal steps of the grip. Will post pics of the grip tomorrow.

[Jawohl]

Well, something funny's going on here...the lips I cut off don't actually fit these crossguards!
The grip on the dagger fits flush with the guards (which is how I'd imagine they should). By flush I mean on the front and back faces--no room for a lip. If a lip is supposed to be there for location, then it must be on a pair of different crossguards to these.
It seems (mad hypothesis, or just mad poster?) that for a long time this dagger has had the wrong crossguards (slightly narrower, accommodating the lips)--and now it has the correct guards, and doing up the nut just butted the lip up to what are now flat-edged crossguards. Does that all sound mad? It's the only way I can make sense of the ex-lips that didn't fit on this dagger....
Now the grip fits tight both ends, and the dagger looks completely unaltered. After all, the total length reduction of the grip was a total of about 1mm.

Sorry if this all sounds a bit crazy--just trying to justify feeling bad over the comments, when I can't seem to rationalise the LIPS...
Henry

[wolfeknives]

Henry, I don't think the lips were actually placed there, they are a result of the grip tightening at the time of manufacture and of course ageof the wood. When the dagger was manufactured the wood was much less brittle, and the lips of the fittings would have pressed into the wood without any danger of chipping. Expansion and shrinkage cycles over the years would enhance the depth of the impessions.
If the fittings are original to the dagger, as these appear to be, everything should line up. Sometimesthe left and right sides are of slightly different dimensins, and turning the guard and pommel will provide a proper fit.
I do agree with the others, having done any work on the dagger will have reduced the collectability and value. Sorry you had to learn the hard way, but we all have to learn our lessons somehow.

[Jawohl]

Hello Wolfgang--I hear what you say. Having said the lips wouldn't fit either side of the present guards, I suppose they could have, if formed by pressure in softer (younger) wood, and pushed around a slightly rounded crossguard corner, yes. The lips were tiny, but enough to endanger the grip from chips with any movement of the guard. As I said, a flake was already forming, which was why I removed the lips.
Heresy? OK, it was heresy, outrage.
But 1) I've stopped further chipping completely (it can't),
and 2) it's not noticeable, even at close range!

Regarding my other question (got lost in the furore), about rebuilding the internal steps that locate the guards--I suppose that's heresy as well? Again,without taking the handle off, the work would be invisible. The only visible result would be that the grip is always perfectly lined up with its guards!
Are repairs not allowed, if collectibility and value is to be maintained?

Sorry if I've put any noses out of joint with my "bull in a china shop" approach--didn't mean to. I went crimson with the replies.....

regards,
Henry

[rbminis]

IMHO, leave the rest alone.

[wolfeknives]

If it was my dagger Henry, I would just snug up the pommel nut (not too tight) and put up with a slight wiggle, if it still occurs. Any work done to the dagger, even if not seen from the exterior will de-value the piece. It will also limit the number of collectors who would be interested in purchasing.
A slight wiggle is common in a number of TR daggers. Navy and some second model Luftwaffe daggers have a thin celluloid shell over a wood core. The core shrinks away from the thin cover, making it very fragile. If these grips are tightened down, a cracked handle is often the result.
So a slightly loose grip is not considered a problem by most experienced collectors.

[Serge M.]

If it was my dagger Henry, I would just snug up the pommel nut (not too tight) and put up with a slight wiggle, if it still occurs. Any work done to the dagger, even if not seen from the exterior will de-value the piece. It will also limit the number of collectors who would be interested in purchasing.
A slight wiggle is common in a number of TR daggers. Navy and some second model Luftwaffe daggers have a thin celluloid shell over a wood core. The core shrinks away from the thin cover, making it very fragile. If these grips are tightened down, a cracked handle is often the result.
So a slightly loose grip is not considered a problem by most experienced collectors.

I concur with the above statement in it's entirety.

-wagner-

[Jawohl]

OK fellows--"repair" work over. Thanks for the advice. Yes the wiggle (or rattle) is slight, as the tang hole only allows a little.
As I bought the dagger not to put in a case and exhibit it, but to handle and heft it (yep!), the slop is an annoyance. Maybe a temporary stuff of some wadding would be a better bet.
True--I'm not a a collector like you guys (can't afford to be), so my sensibilities regarding alteration of a period piece might be...a bit more philistine. Sorry about that! But what I definitely don't want is to devalue the piece. I'm cured!
Thanks to everyone for the comments and advice. And the outrage!

Heinrich